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  • #203713
    Anonymous
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    For any of you that have had some type of “breakthrough”, was there something specific that helped bring it about? I find myself going through ups and downs, I’m sure that’s normal, but I love to hear about what others have found to be helpful. Do you have a favorite book from an LDS author that you have found to throw light on our specific situation? Lowell Bennion or Eugene England come to mind as possible authors. I’m sure there are many others but I’m not too familiar with their work.

    #213662
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Accepting uncertainty and the possibility of faithful people in the Church disagreeing, even on some very fundamental and foundational things. Once I accepted that, reconciliation and acceptance became an individual path from which others’ biases and views didn’t matter nearly as much as they do for others.

    Realizing that there are reasonable intellectual arguments for any issue on both sides – that every single “issue” can be addressed from a faithful perspective just as legitimately as from a perspective of disbelief. I mean that in complete seriousness. Reaching that realization freed me to construct the intellectual and emotional argument I want to make to pursue what I desire to pursue – to “let that desire work within (me)” and produce the fruits on which I want to feast.

    I found that freedom at a young age, when I didn’t have to struggle nearly as much as those who are rocked by difficulty with uncertainty as adults. I never built absolutes that shook my faith when I realized they really weren’t absolutes. I am grateful for that, but I also believe the underlying foundation is the same.

    #213663
    Anonymous
    Guest

    There are some books that are pretty good at helping to see life as less literal:

    The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz

    The Alchemist by Paulo Coehlo

    A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle

    #213664
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Orson, a couple of things jump out as helping me.

    1st journal writing : I found that keeping a separate journal soley for my religious doubts was a huge help to me. In a related note I found writing papers extremely helpful and liberating.

    2nd reading : reading helped me feel justified in my thoughts and expanded my mind to new ideas. An example this Bushman quote I found ” I am a practicing Mormon who considers himself believing but who rejects absolutist elements of the fundamentalist world view, eg, the view of Joseph Smith as omnisent or morally perfect or recieving revelation unmixed with human and cultural limitations. However I do except non-absolutist incursions of the supernatural into the human experience ” When I first read this quote it blew me away and I thought “WOW Mormons are allowed to believe that “. It really helped me shape my own views and allowed me to give myself permission to come to my own understanding of what being LDS means to me. Other helpful books include Richard Bushman ” Rough Stone Rolling ” Hugh B Browns “An Abundant Life”( this man was brilliant and miles ahead of his time ), Levi Petersons ” The Backslider” and many others I also very much enjoyed John Dehlins ” How to Stay …” essay .

    3rd : these boards have been a huge help to me.

    4th : helping others within the faith that struggle with testimony helps me see were the church needs people like me even if they will never admit it.

    #213665
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Salo wrote:

    4th : helping others within the faith that struggle with testimony helps me see were the church needs people like me even if they will never admit it.

    I couldn’t agree more! I find myself searching for people that have lost their faith. I don’t always consciously intend to help them. Maybe I do by listening to them? I don’t know. Talking with many people in a similar situation, especially those that I think are farther down the path than me, helps me see all kinds of new possibilities. I don’t agree with everything all the time, but it so therapeutic to know that I am not alone.

    I know “they” (the Church) will not admit it, but they do need people like us. Thanks for saying that. There so many people in the Church whose spiritual needs are not met, and they are lost, because the Church can’t seem to acknowledge and deal directly with the problem of disaffection (or the journey of the Dark Night of the Soul).

    I’ve thought many times about approaching my Bishop or Stake President to volunteer to talk to people that go in to see them about a crisis of faith. But I also don’t feel comfortable doing that. It’s such a can of worms to open up. I wish there were an auxiliary group or something for this. There’s no organizational support structure for this important journey of spiritual growth.

    #213666
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Salo wrote:

    An example this Bushman quote I found ” I am a practicing Mormon who considers himself believing but who rejects absolutist elements of the fundamentalist world view, eg, the view of Joseph Smith as omnisent or morally perfect or recieving revelation unmixed with human and cultural limitations. However I do except non-absolutist incursions of the supernatural into the human experience.”

    That is a great quote. Do you have a reference?

    #213667
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Orson , I found it in the endnotes for “in Sacred Loneliness” pg 629 under the title “The Supernatural”

    #213668
    Anonymous
    Guest

    That is a great quote. Thanks, Salo.

    #213669
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for that, I found it in my copy of ISL. The reference makes it look like it was published in Bushman’s first book, in 1984.

    #213670
    Anonymous
    Guest

    A professor suggested that I read the book “A Thoughtful Faith,” edited by Phillip L Barlow. The book is a compilation of essays by scholars of the humanities bend who have chosen to stay LDS. The foreword indicates that there is a similar book out there focusing on scientific scholars, but I haven’t been able to find it. As I read these essays, I found myself falling across a whole spectrum of agreeing to disagreeing and nuancing arguments put forth by the authors to fit my own understanding.

    I had been told many times growing up that you shouldn’t read dissenting opinions or interact too closely with people falling away from the church because you would get caught up in all that and such would be damaging to your testimony. Becoming one of those people you aren’t supposed to associate with and starting down a path that could possibly separate me from the church was scary. Finding that I wouldn’t be swept away by every line of argumentation or accept every offer of “another way” was empowering. I still choose my literature and how I discuss topics with people carefully. However, I now have greater confidence in making those choices.

    Also, for me I feel that starting this with a non-threatening book, one written from a faithful perspective, was helpful. I was quite scared by all the doubts and questions bubbling up around me. Finding this greater confidence allowed me to approach questions and individuals (myself included) in a less guarded, more trusting, manner.

    #213671
    Anonymous
    Guest

    trill wrote:

    I had been told many times growing up that you shouldn’t read dissenting opinions or interact too closely with people falling away from the church because you would get caught up in all that and such would be damaging to your testimony.

    I also experienced those types of warnings in my youth. As I got older I could not understand how a lie could be more powerful or more persuasive than the truth, it seemed to me that a clear set of eyes attached to a heart in the right place would easily see through error in favor of truth. Obviously there are many shades of gray and things are not clearly black and white – but I still think “truth” is ultimately more persuasive than “error”, and I don’t think anyone should fear any type of learning or education.

    Fortunately I have found many references in church teachings that support this point of view. Now I see these “warnings” of my youth a product of culture and misplaced fear teamed with an incomplete understanding of some topics.

    #213672
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Honestly, my breakthrough didn’t come until my testimony had been completely brokendown to everything except, I knew there was a God and I believed he wanted the best for me. It was only then that I actually had the humility to listen to God and learn from him. He could then rebuild my testimony.

    As far as books, one of my very favorites is Believing Christ by Stephen E. Robinson. It gives so much hope and really strengthens your testimony of Christ. What is more, it was written from an LDS perspective.

    #213673
    Anonymous
    Guest

    mr_musicman wrote:

    As far as books, one of my very favorites is Believing Christ by Stephen E. Robinson. It gives so much hope and really strengthens your testimony of Christ. What is more, it was written from an LDS perspective.

    Oooooh. Yeah! I have that book. I really really liked it. I am trying to get my older teenage children to read it. It isn’t a long book.

    Great suggestion.

    #213674
    Anonymous
    Guest

    My quick response for now (and this is in addition to many of the helpful hints that have already been listed) is TIME. Its a good thing at times to let TIME do its thing…sometimes the concern is forgotten, or appears less important, sometimes the reverse happens!

    I am sure I am not alone…but in the early days of my crisis in faith I was consumed with reading whatever I could…good, bad, ugly. I swear one day I spent about 8 hours (not all at once, but in 15mins chunks constantly) going through Mormonthink.com, and another day I read “Shaken Faith Syndrome”. Basically though both of these just opened up more issues for me to think about!

    Anyway right now I am in a phase where I am not really focussing on my LDS concerns actively every single day. Its mostly on Sunday’s. That may sound weird but I am finding that I just need to get on with my life, focus on my personal faith in Christ each day, and deal with my concerns with Mormonism less. Mind you I find myself still checking these boards daily…but then again I also surf the news daily too…I am always on the net.

    My point is I have lessened my focus a little….Ive needed to do this to keep sane. I also think sometimes you can overthink things…so I am kind of at the stage where I try to think about my feelings re the church only when I practically cannot, and obviously most of the time this occurs on Sundays.

    So thats my 2cents worth…it has helped as I am somewhat less self absorbed, and Amen to that I say!

    #213675
    Anonymous
    Guest

    A stake president who listened to me not entail spiritual abuse from a bishop, knew we started worshipping elsewhere to heal and was ok with doing so and made no judgement, he only counseled me to “stay close to the Lord as you have been”. but later with hearing me out when I completely spilled my guts on the phone with him about the things I learned about church history. I mean everything, 33 wives of JS, being cut of from VTer’s and the pain with that …..whatever was on my mind at the moment. He heard my heart and in the end, some months later honored our request to move to a ward where I felt accepted and made new friends and they saw my heart and reached out to me..

    Good friends that I had know for years, one was a sister I visit taught for the last few years, these friends who were true examples of saints and were there for me when I just needed to process and cry during the journey. She told me that I could always call, I did a few times.

    A good home teacher and his son who faithful just loved our family and showed that they cared about us.

    A new bishop who told me that ” We go where we are spiritually fed,” and just made me feel welcome when I did show up at church.

    Reading RSR book and the introduction to a seminar given last summer were extremely validating to my intellectual realization that I was one who took everything literal and one didn’t have to do so in the church.

    I think God can turn around painful experiences into something good. You cannot control how others treat you, but you can seek for comfort from God and led him lead you to a higher realm with adversity, you usually emerge a stronger person because of it. I am thankful now for the abusive bishop (never thought I would say that) and other experiences in my life over the last year as they pushed me through to other stages of faith.

    God sustained me and gave me beauty for ashes and joy for the mourning. Isaiah 61:3. He also led me exactly where he wanted me. I firmly believe that. My new bishop has two inactive adult sons, and I have shared with him both the introduction to the seminar and Fowler’s Stages of Faith, I did so to promote compassion on those who struggle and during this time found out about his sons.

    Sheer determination to not let go of my LDS connections. Having a son on a mission helped with that determination.

    Praise music always helped me when I was in my moments of intense grief. In particular, one song was Angel of the Lord. Learning to praise the Lord’s faithfulness and love for us and to find joy in HIm even during the hard times helps.

    Reading my scriptures, and books that uplifted me like Having A Mary Spirit. My husband also had a book that helped him called Every Man, God’s Man. Allowing God to change us from the inside out, and do a whole remodeling, even if it meant or felt like the house you built on His rock was crumbling around you. even when you already loved Him. That love can grow stronger as you focus on only on Him during the hard times.

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