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http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/disp … 31,00.htmlhttp://mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/or … d/?id=4078http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences … ience.htmlThis is great material Matt. I want to make it a part of our future library of materials. An oldie but a goodie. I found this recently & it deserves another look. I’m surprised it had only (1) response. For me personally, it seems relevant. In case the links were lost with time, I’ve included another one.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2008/10/testimony-as-a-process?lang=eng Eternal Progression is an interesting teaching of the LDS church. We don’t always think of it as a process.
Or, we think of it only as a process that goes directly up. No bumps in the road. No detours. No problems.
Or, if we have bumps, detours or problems, we solve them quickly. We correct our path & we move on.
Even though the introduction seems to be trying to “school” the rest of us on this board, it’s the talk that’s
link that I personally find interesting. Try not to be turned off.
I kept away from the word “testimony” for a few years after my faith transition started. Eventually, I came around to using the definition of a “testimony in a court house” as how I defined it (ish).
DEFINITION:
Eventually I got to “testimony” = “
words with meaning(with embedded “Pay Attention” prompts in the words) from someone(and that not all witnesses are equally competent to bear testimony)”. Sacrament meetings are just a bunch of people getting up to deliver meaningful words (from their point of view) on topics they feel worth your attention. Sometimes that is a wonderful thing because you actually do need those meaningful words. Other times, it’s “meaningful – cute” (Primary kids) or “memorable-useless (dementia-infused usually)”.
HOW IT FUNCTIONS:
I walk through the world understanding that most people will throw “words with meaning” at me. [Or even worse, assign “meaning” to “non-words” aka “mind-read” on some level.]
I also understand that those words (and non-words) have “Pay Attention to Something” involved [Whether it’s my insurance person with a “pay attention to how much money we are charging for our service” to my child’s “My sibling hit me” tactic] – my “attention” is requested first (understanding that people generally “put their money where their mouth is” so if you have their attention, you have their time, and if you have their time – it’s a lot easier to get validation from them (which can be money).
My job is to weigh out my attention (and related resources) and judge accordingly. How much of “someone else’s truth” can I sustain/honor/create space for in my life without getting my own “truths” snuffed out, honoring my time and attention, and/or the “fart level of truth” is just more then I can handle – that level of “righteous judgement” is on me.
The part of Elder Godoy’s talk that I like was a quote from Boyd K Packer: President Boyd K. Packer taught: “The voice of the Spirit is described in the scripture as being neither ‘loud’ nor ‘harsh.’ It is ‘not a voice of thunder, neither … [a] voice of a great tumultuous noise.’ But rather, ‘a still voice of perfect mildness, as if it had been a whisper,’ and it can ‘pierce even to the very soul’ and ‘cause [the heart] to burn.’ (3 Ne. 11:3; Hel. 5:30; D&C 85:6–7.) Remember, Elijah found the voice of the Lord was not in the wind, nor in the earthquake, nor in the fire, but was a ‘still small voice.’ (1 Kgs. 19:12.)”
President Packer continues: “The Spirit does not get our attention by shouting or shaking us with a heavy hand. Rather it whispers. It caresses so gently that if we are preoccupied we may not feel it at all. …
“Occasionally it will press just firmly enough for us to pay heed. But most of the time, if we do not heed the gentle feeling, the Spirit will withdraw and wait until we come seeking and listening and say in our manner and expression, like Samuel of ancient times, ‘Speak [Lord], for thy servant heareth’ (1 Sam. 3:10.)” (“The Candle of the Lord,” Tambuli, July 1983, 30–31; Ensign, Jan. 1983, 53).
What comes to my mind is: when did it become that we have to have a F&T Sunday once a month?
This is one of our practices that seems unique to our faith & church.
I think a testimony is a belief that has been confirmed through spiritual or temporal means. Normally, the spiritual confirmation is in the form of feelings of warmth, sometimes accompanied by tears. The temporal confirmation often occurs through experiences that are simply wholesome. Experiences like seeing the giving nature of members, their kindness, or positive aspects of church administration. However, these things can be fleeting, and as the BoM says, in Alma 32, they require ongoing nourishment or they wither and die.
I like SD’s definition above: “I think a testimony is a belief that has been confirmed through spiritual or temporal means.”I like Amy’Js too:
“Eventually I got to “testimony” = “words with meaning (with embedded “Pay Attention” prompts in the words) from someone (and that not all witnesses are equally competent to bear testimony)”.There seems to be a progression of what a testimony is or how it is displayed over time.
When you first join the church as a convert, you are excited & the “spirit” seemed to lift you off your seat on a fast Sunday.
Now I’ve noticed the oldest members of our ward rarely bear their testimonies. Some do at the end of a talk because it is expected.
I hate to admit it, but I cringe when it’s the 1st Sunday of the month. Over time, it has lost a lot of meaning. Maybe that’s for the better.
My definition is: a testimony is a spiritual expression of what a person believes at a specific moment in time.
Minyan Man wrote:
I like SD’s definition above:“I think a testimony is a belief that has been confirmed through spiritual or temporal means.”I like Amy’Js too:
“Eventually I got to “testimony” = “words with meaning (with embedded “Pay Attention” prompts in the words) from someone (and that not all witnesses are equally competent to bear testimony)”.There seems to be a progression of what a testimony is or how it is displayed over time.
When you first join the church as a convert, you are excited & the “spirit” seemed to lift you off your seat on a fast Sunday.
Now I’ve noticed the oldest members of our ward rarely bear their testimonies. Some do at the end of a talk because it is expected.
I hate to admit it, but I cringe when it’s the 1st Sunday of the month. Over time, it has lost a lot of meaning. Maybe that’s for the better.
My definition is: a testimony is a spiritual expression of what a person believes at a specific moment in time.
I think that “the ultimate testimony” is in part “putting your money where your mouth is” [and not just a display of words], I say less in some areas and more in others.
Technically, a testimony is a statement of something you feel so strongly about that you would state it with full sincerity under oath, and perjury only applies to knowingly untrue testimony. So, religious testimonies are statements of sincere religious belief. I like that definition, since it doesn’t require the testimony to be accurate or true. It only has to be sincere. I can appreciate, honor, and respect such testimony (and those who bear it) without being required to agree.
I don’t know OT — I am concerned that if a testimony is just something you feel strongly about, it means you can have a testimony of the Repulican Party, of personal, stylistic things, etcetera. I prefer the idea that a testimony is a belief in something spiritual that has been confirmed by some means, primarily spiritual but possibly also temporal. I understand that concern, but it doesn’t conflict with the pure definition. Testimonies are based on one’s experience(s), and they are subjective. The point is that there is no official penalty for inaccurate or incorrect testimonies – and that is a wonderful thing. If that were not the case, fear of testifying would cause all kinds of terrible consequences. Right, we testify to the truth as we remember and understand it – not to an absolute truth in an objective and never changing way.
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