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Earlier this year I did not attempt to renew my temple recommend when it expired, but today I’m wondering about possibly getting it renewed. I do want to be an active member in the church, I can answer the last and most important question “do you feel worthy” in the affirmative, I don’t hold any malice toward the church. My worry is if I believe ENOUGH. My bishop knows my struggles in depth, he’s been a pretty good friend outside of church activities. I’m not sure if he’ll ask specifics about the literal aspects of my belief (that in the past I pretty clearly expressed as non-literal), but if he did I want to express honestly that I don’t “know” things the way most members claim. I do have a strong “hope” that God is at work in the church, and I’m willing to nurture that seed of faith and watch it grow. The specific things that I’m looking for help with is – what sources in the church have you seen that seem to support this “hopeful” view? I think of the recent conference talk that expressed “you don’t know everything, but you know enough.” I vaguely remember a scripture that says something like some are given to know while others must exercise faith. Anything along these lines will be helpful. When I do go to visit with my bishop I want to be able to express my hope for continued spiritual growth and have a little backing that may help him feel good about “passing” me even if I can’t answer all the belief related questions with a perfect conviction.
Any ideas?
the time before last when i went in seeking my temple recommend I answered “I hope” to all 4 of the belief ?s and was told, “Well, we all live by faith.” It was this last time when I said “No” to the first ? and was asked if I wanted to and I said “No” again that I was NOT given a recommend. I think if you hope and want to then you are in much better position to getting a recommend. GAil
“I am trying my hardest,” is my favorite answer. Another one, stated at the very beginning (prior to the actual questions), is: “I believe and want the help of the temple to overcome those things I struggle to believe. When I say, ‘Yes (or, ‘No’),’ that is what I mean.”
Another one, like Gail said, is, “I really hope so, and I want to get to where I know. I need the spirit of the temple to help me.”
Thanks for you comments, you make some good points. I remember reading a post somewhere sometime that quoted a few scriptures with the interpretation that maybe every person on the earth is not meant to have a “knowledge” type testimony. I think D&C 88:118 “and as all have not faith” was used, as well as something relating to Laman and Lemuel (I think). The point was how people can act through hope even when they are unsure – and how blessed they may be through those actions.
Anyone know what the other related scriptures may be?
Its very hard to make this sound as nice in written form as I want to say it, so please read it with love and kindness in my tone. It seems to me like most people at Church who say they “know” something is true generally don’t know much factually about it. What they are really saying is that it makes them feel good inside to hope it is true. They should really say “I feel it is true.” A lot of people who would say they “know Joseph Smith was a prophet” don’t actually know much about Joseph Smith. A lot of people will say “I know the Church is true,” but they don’t know much about the Church really, and they don’t really care much about the definition of the word “truth.” They are all saying (IMO) “I have a good feeling inside when I say this.” This gets them a pass on the TR interview. They are speaking a language of Mormonism that insiders understand, but really doesn’t make a lot of sense if you are an outsider or a questioner.
My point isn’t to tear down people who say those things. That’s why I wanted to qualify my intention initially. It’s fine with me if people see the Church and their faith that way. My point is to deconstruct their language a little to show that we’re not so different from them. They don’t really know as much as their language implies. Its really a lot of feelings and hopes. That seems to be enough to qualify for a TR.
So I see two approaches to the answers from our perspective:
1. Just say “Yes” or “No” and leave out the details. I think we get too hung up on the language. Those of us that have gone through doubts tend to be much more concrete and exact than most of the members. We mean the same thing, it just sounds like the others are more sure because of the language of Mormonism.
2. If you feel #1 is misleading (which it may or may not be), then answer that you hope, want to or do your best at those things in the TR interview. If asked for details, I would try to be as brief and positive as possible. Let them know that you sometimes feel uncertain being so absolute, and want to work on increasing your faith through the spiritual benefits of the temple.
Either of those paths are honest, as long as you are approaching the temple with a sincere desire to make it a spiritual and holy experience. That’s my opinion.
Orson, that’s great. I agree with what has been said thus far. Let us know how it goes. The best one, in my opinion, is D&C 46:13-14: Quote:13 To
someit is given by the Holy Ghost to knowthat Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. 14 To
othersit is given to believeon their words, that they also might have eternal lifeif they continue faithful. If something as basic as a knowledge that Jesus is the Son of God is not available universally, then I think there isn’t much that is available universally – and that we should be totally accepting of those to whom it is given to believe (to whatever small or large degree they are given to believe).
Orson, ok I’ll try to take a stab at this one, In the LDS community a temple recomend symbolizes your worthiness before God , I think it is a self defeating attitude to not include yourself among the worthy and remain active in the church. This is MY OWN personal view and based on what I view the symbol of temple to be. I don’t personally know you but you strike me as a man who is sincere in his religion and trying his best to account himself worthy before God. So my question is can you stand in a building symbolic of God’s presence and say “i’m trying the best I can , the best I know how ” ? If your answer is yes then the God that I believe in would have know objection to attending the Temple. As far as your TR interview goes its a personal and symbolic event , I try to keep mine personal and symbolic , I suggest you do the same . Also it has been my experience that moving forward and reclaiming your personal faith is a bit like getting in cold pool , it is easiest just to jump in . Good-luck I hope something I said was helpful.
Salo
i haven’t been to the temple in quite some time, and haven’t gone through the interview, so take this for what it’s worth. i’m pretty sure the bishops/sp are told not to ask follow-up questions. and ‘temple worthiness’ isn’t between him and you, but between you and god. so if it’s something that is important for you, then the most important thing is to be honest with yourself.
i think the internet mormon communities have shown there is a spectrum of beliefs about every aspect of the church.
a belief in the restored gospel doesn’t have to necessarily mean you believe in the CES version. that is really a personal matter, which i think is really the whole point — worship — in or out of the temple, is between you and god.
good luck.
Quick update: I had a brief conversation with my Bishop, asking how firm of a conviction is needed for a TR. He answered with a few references to testimony as not being a perfect knowledge, but is often more of a desire to know – and most importantly a willingness to act on that hope. In the end he basically said ‘if you want a recommend come in and get it’ which I found encouraging, that he didn’t seem to have any reservations about giving me one (in the past I have told him how clearly I “didn’t believe” – at least literally). So I have an appointment and don’t anticipate any problems “passing” the interview. I gather that “testimony” (as in “do you have a testimony of…”) can be defined as a hope for further insight that leads to understanding truth (or discernment between what is of man and what is of God), and that hope is something that I do have. I do see elements of the divine at work in the church. Thanks for all your comments!
Orson, I had to close the door to my office so I could do the happy dance that was bouncing around in my heart. I hope it goes as you envision. Not to take away from this thread, but I think since the term ‘considering’ is open-faced in nature, I can play Devil’s advocate. After much thought, I torn up my old recommend and will not seek another. I am programming this decision for the rest of my life. If senility should bid me to change my mind down the road, so be it. I never felt particular close to the Savior in the building we call a temple. Indeed, a walk thru a redwood forest, a stroll on a empty beach in winter, a Christmas cantata in an ancient church in Santa Fe, all have brought human spirituality to me ever so much more in my life. I recognize many factors which influence me. In my old age, I seem to find myself leaving God in his remote heaven, while finding service in the advancement of human rights. In my adult life (half a century), our church has turned away the three major social advantages of our time (black, women and gay civil rights), and bid obedience from me. I can no longer be quiet, my grandchildren need to hear from their grandfather, what is right and honest and true. Why should I teach them about Moroni if he never existed? Why would seek entry to a building with his statue on the top? Just asking….. Shalom I”m not a good one to answer your question because there are some way smarter/wiser people here than me. But I do find your perspective and current experiences fascinating. Please continue to share. George, I respect you not only for your age, but for your position. I share your general experience with the temple, and I have had feelings that amounted to essentially, “Why would the Father want me in there again?” For me, at least, the question is this: How important is temple recommend holding and participation to my foregone decision to Stay LDS? I’d like to hear what others think. But for me, holding a temple recommend and participating even infrequently is part and parcel of Staying LDS.
I may change my mind when I go back and reread this tomorrow, but honestly, I am not sure holding a temple recommend is critical for everyone. I still hold to the belief that temple marriage and sealings are important for eternal families, and the power and authority to perform those reside in the temple. But if I got sealed to my family, and received my ordinances in the temple, and never went back and never sinned against God, I don’t see what that would matter all that much.
IOW, if it helps me remember my convenants and feel the presence of God, then I should use that tool to strengthen myself. If it does nothing for me, I don’t see it will be a good use of my time.
I will go back when I want to, not because I feel I should. But I do want to try to keep my recommend current…I mean, my oldest daughter is 16, only a few years (hopefully 10 or more) until I will want to be in there to be with her.
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