On the fence

Our usual audience is people who are still, or were formerly, members of the LDS Church, who lost their faith, but are considering a return.

Your questions may overlap that in ways. We can give it a try to see if we are helpful. Obviously by the name of the site and our stated purpose, you are going to get answers biased towards being a member. That is what we are working on here. I don’t mind answering questions about the LDS Church.

I don’t think we provide what people think of as “apologetics” in the usual mormon sense. We are certainly candid and open about issues of history and doctrine. The reason we are not usual is that some of us simply reject some of it. LDS Doctrine is very difficult to pin down, since we were founded as a non-creed organization. That causes a lot of confusion when people approach the Church from the outside and try to figure out what we believe. It confuses people even inside the Church when they look at various positions leaders have taken in our short history.

Anyway, sounds interesting. Thanks for introducing yourself.

Thank you for being willing to give me a chance. Maybe apologetics was not the best phrase. I guess more of what I am looking for is how have you approached your issues with the LDS church/teachings, and overcome them in a manner that satisfies you and enables you to accept discrepancies and still remain faithful? I’m looking for some people that are middle of the road to discuss this with. The majority of what is out there is either fervent anti-Mormon hate, or scripted answers from the church. I’m hoping to find people who are LDS, have their faith, yet have doubts about certain things but have overcome them.

I’ll give a brief example, please correct me if I assume anything or am incorrect. The LDS church restricts certain substances as a result of a revelation to Joseph Smith, yet in Matthew Christ states, “It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”

When LDS teachings and the words of Jesus contradict one another, which takes precedence?

I just wanted to say hi, as you sound very much like me, except the fact that I actually got baptised into the Church. I am currently inactive, but still cant shake this bizarre feeling I have and the fact that every where I look now, something reminds me of the Church. But anyway, the point of me posting on your thread was I know a few good forums with some wonderful LDS members who first introduced the faith to me, they are very good at answering questions, so if you wanted me to give you some, to use in conjunction with this one of course, I can do. Hope you decide which side of the fence you want to be in the end.

I don’t personally believe that certain substances can taint us by contact or ingestion.

It’s wierd to quote myself, but after re-reading this a couple days later, i’m not sure I was clear.

I don’t think substances taint us in a spiritual sense. I think our bad desires, which come out of us (as Jesus said), are what “defile” us. So in my mind, consuming some amount of alcohol is not a defilement in and of itself. The *desire* or the lust to become intoxicated, is a problem.

This reminds me of a story my brother-in-law told me. He was a supply officer stationed in Iraq. Some guys on his base thought they were really funny. They were bbq’ing some ribs outdoors. It was pork. They offered some to an Iraqi soldier they knew, who was of course Muslim. He ate it, not knowing what it was, just that it was really tasty. My brother-in-law was FURIOUS at the american soldiers when he found out! He went to the Iraqi soldier to tell him what had happened. My BIL thought for sure the victim of the prank would freak out. You know his response? He shrugged his shoulders and said “oh well, I did not know it was pork, so it is ok. It was not my desire to break our dietary law.”

A while ago, when I was deep in the church, some vegan pagan friends (they were good people and werent trying to bring me away – lol) asked me

“what if someone fed you cannabis cakes or spiked your drink”

I knew tehy wouldnt but the reply was

“Well if I dont know im breaking that commandment then Heavenly Father wouldnt punish me however If I found out I would be hurt think of it this way. What If i fed your daughter a juicy hamburger…same thing”

I think those Soldiers need to be careful – if they pulled that prank to the wrong person …. let me put it this way…here in the UK they would have been sent to the military prison and possibly kicked out!