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  • #203854
    Anonymous
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    I am not sure if this is actually a doctrine and what if any the official belief of the LDS Church is – I have heard so many different opinions on the matter it is all rather confusing. But basically the passage of “As God once was, we are and as God now is, we shall become” (or something along those lines, Im paraphrasing). Many of the critics of the Church (yes I shall admit I do read critics articles, just so I can say when I come to my conclusions i know that it is the right one!) say that The LDS members who receive the highest degree of Glory of the Celestial Kingdom will become gods themselves and rule over their own planet. I remember one person (LDS) saying to me that the unofficial explanation was that LDS only believe in one God (ie capital G) but there are many other gods out there – but God is the supreme ruler of them all. I remember they quoted a passage from the bible which mentioned “other gods” but cant remember which ones. I know critics believe LDS have misinterpreted this passage and “other gods” actually refer to false gods. Now I dont actually have a problem with this belief if it is true, but I am very confused if it is true or not as some have said its rubbish and others have said that there is an unofficial belief while others claim it to be true completely! Others say to “become like God” actually doesn’t mean to become a god per se but to become LIKE God ie free from sin I suppose? I suppose I could mention Kolob in this as well??

    Thank you very much for you help up until now! I know this will take a while to unravel things, I think before I dived into the deep end before I could swim. But I am very appreciative of your responses! :)

    #215438
    Anonymous
    Guest

    NotSure2008 wrote:

    I am not sure if this is actually a doctrine and what if any the official belief of the LDS Church is – I have heard so many different opinions on the matter it is all rather confusing. But basically the passage of “As God once was, we are and as God now is, we shall become” (or something along those lines, Im paraphrasing). Many of the critics of the Church (yes I shall admit I do read critics articles, just so I can say when I come to my conclusions i know that it is the right one!) say that The LDS members who receive the highest degree of Glory of the Celestial Kingdom will become gods themselves and rule over their own planet. I remember one person (LDS) saying to me that the unofficial explanation was that LDS only believe in one God (ie capital G) but there are many other gods out there – but God is the supreme ruler of them all. I remember they quoted a passage from the bible which mentioned “other gods” but cant remember which ones. I know critics believe LDS have misinterpreted this passage and “other gods” actually refer to false gods. Now I dont actually have a problem with this belief if it is true, but I am very confused if it is true or not as some have said its rubbish and others have said that there is an unofficial belief while others claim it to be true completely! Others say to “become like God” actually doesn’t mean to become a god per se but to become LIKE God ie free from sin I suppose? I suppose I could mention Kolob in this as well??

    Thank you very much for you help up until now! I know this will take a while to unravel things, I think before I dived into the deep end before I could swim. But I am very appreciative of your responses! :)

    Jesus taught that through obedience we can inherit all that the Father has. From all I have studied, the Church affirms this truth, but they no emphasize it like they used to. Perhaps because enemies of the Church have distorted the doctrine and mock it incessantly.

    Here is a list of references I prepared for someone else on another forum.

    Rom. 8:17

    Gal. 4:7

    Eph. 4:13

    1 Cor. 11:11

    Moses 1. Especially vs. 30-40

    D&C 93:20-29

    D&C 131:1-4

    D&C 132:15-40, 48, 49

    D&C 76:40-70

    Then go to Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation vol. II. pp 43-44, 48.

    If you can’t find it, I’ll type it out for you when I get some time.

    Thanks.

    #215439
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Personally, I think the doctrine of becoming like God is one of the central tenets of the Bible. It is taught in one way or another over and over and over again there – in both the Old and New Testaments. It is my absolute favorite teaching of the Restored Gospel – and, ironically, it is one of the core ties we have to many Eastern religions.

    I wrote a fairly long paper at one point for a divinity school class, but here is the bare-bones, stripped down, bullet-point version – to the best of my memory, and not taking the time to quote actual scriptural verses:

    1) It is clear that the Bible teaches we are created in the image of God.

    2) It is clear that the Bible teaches that we are to become like God. In the OT, this generally is phrased somewhat as follows: “Be __________, because God is __________.” The direct line reasoning is that we are to develop a certain characteristic specifically because God has that characteristic. The penultimate statement of this is the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus laid out traits that make us “blessed” and then says, “Be ye therefore (by the pattern laid out in the previous verses) perfect (complete, whole, fully developed), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” In the BofM version, he makes it even clearer that this is a final state of progression, by adding himself to the injunction.

    3) The NT takes the OT admonitions and actually adds a stated reward. The joint-heir change to the inheritance custom – the “see him as he is, for we shall be like him” – the “one as we are one” – etc. all provide context for the command.

    interestingly, the Book of Mormon says exactly nothing about becoming like God, except in 3 Nephi. I think this is for two primary reasons:

    1) The basic teaching is almost omni-present in the Bible, and Mormon and Moroni made it perfectly clear that one of the core purposes of their record was to inspire those who would “believe this” (the Book of Mormon) to “believe that” (the Bible). (Note: It’s not to believe IN the Bible, but to actually believe what it says. – hat tip to Robinson) If the concept of becoming like God is central to the Bible, it wouldn’t be necessary in the BofM abridgment to “waste space” detailing it.

    2) If it were taught in the BofM, it would be much easier for non-Mormon Christians to dismiss it as uniquely Mormon heresy. They still can reject it as such, but the fact that it’s not taught in the BofM means they are rejecting the Bible, not the BofM, when they reject the concept.

    Summary: I see the concept of becoming like God to be a core Christian doctrine – in fact, THE core Christian doctrine of the Bible. I see the rejection of it as THE core abomination of the Great Apostasy.

    One more thing: I personally have no problem questioning, putting on a shelf, not accepting right now the first part of the couplet – that God once was a man. I know Joseph taught it in a sermon, and I know others extrapolated on it, but there is only one small verse from which it is intuited – and Joseph himself attributed that idea to that verse. If it ends up being wrong and going the way of other speculation, I’m fine with that. If it ends up being right, I will tip my hat and be fine with it.

    #215440
    Anonymous
    Guest

    What Ray and Fig said :-)

    I’ll add a link to this site (not even an LDS site) discussing the definition of Theosis and its history. I’ve used it in the past as a good reference to study the idea:

    http://orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

    I can’t help but think we downplay this more lately in our Church after being beat up for such a long time for preaching it. The criticisms boggle my mind. The deification of humankind is pretty much the core message of the Bible. It took hundreds of years to beat this idea out of the western Christian churches. Those opposing the idea never quite got it all out of the eastern churches.

    #215441
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I was reading in the book Jesus Before Christianity that the aramaic word for kingdom actually more accurately means kingship. So rather than saying “the kingdom of God is yours” it would more correctly say “the kingship of God is yours.”

    #215442
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hawk, did I recommend that book to you? GREAT book. I think I will mention it on the reading list thread.

    #215443
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for your replies.

    So is the general consensus here that there are no other gods and the word to become like God means in characteristics more so than being? Is Kolob an actual doctrine? Sorry if I am touching on sensitive topics, I am just trying to unravel some confusion and iron my doubts out!

    Thanks once again!

    #215444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ray – yes, I think that was your recommendation back before I really knew who was who out there in the b’nacle. I couldn’t remember who recommended it. A great read!

    Quote:

    So is the general consensus here that there are no other gods and the word to become like God means in characteristics more so than being?

    There is only one God the Father for our earth, but as Mormons we believe we are literally God’s spiritual offspring, therefore, we are subject to developing into gods over a very long period of time. What that means exactly isn’t 100% clear, but the notion is more obvious than the “God’s Pets” alternative offered by most Christian sects.

    Quote:

    Is Kolob an actual doctrine?

    Kolob is mentioned in the POGP as the planet nearest to where God lives (whatever that means – is it God’s address?), but I’m not sure there is a doctrine associated with it. Nothing I’ve seen clearly elaborates on what it says in the POGP or makes it into a doctrine. There’s no teaching in the church about Kolob that I’ve ever heard.

    #215445
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hawkgrrrl wrote:

    Ray – yes, I think that was your recommendation back before I really knew who was who out there in the b’nacle. I couldn’t remember who recommended it. A great read!

    Quote:

    So is the general consensus here that there are no other gods and the word to become like God means in characteristics more so than being?

    There is only one God the Father for our earth, but as Mormons we believe we are literally God’s spiritual offspring, therefore, we are subject to developing into gods over a very long period of time. What that means exactly isn’t 100% clear, but the notion is more obvious than the “God’s Pets” alternative offered by most Christian sects.

    Quote:

    Is Kolob an actual doctrine?

    Kolob is mentioned in the POGP as the planet nearest to where God lives (whatever that means – is it God’s address?), but I’m not sure there is a doctrine associated with it. Nothing I’ve seen clearly elaborates on what it says in the POGP or makes it into a doctrine. There’s no teaching in the church about Kolob that I’ve ever heard.

    Thanks for the clearance – I do agree with you, it is more obvious than the alternative offered by most Christian sects! Thanks :)

    #215446
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The concept of Kolob is just specific enough while still being just vague enough to be interpreted in multiple ways, but the basic idea it presents is that God really is a tangible Being living on a tangible planet in tangible space. I like that concept, but I don’t worry about taking it any further. I figure that’s one I will understand better after I’m dead.

    Actually, the approach in that last sentence is a core foundation of my faith – that I don’t need to “know” and “understand” everything in the here and now, because I’ll understand it at some point. I’m fine with that.

    #215447
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ve thought a lot about this topic lately. I thought about it from the stand point of a parent. When I think of my kids, I want them to do as well as me and would love even more for them to do better in life than me. If God is our father than to me it seems like he should want us to progress as far as we can and not hold us back for some reason. I also hope that we will continue to progress once we enter the next life. I want to continue learning everything I can. If we are able to eventually learn everything and we are able to always do what’s right, that makes us pretty close to gods. Does this sound alright?

    #215448
    Anonymous
    Guest

    happymom wrote:

    Does this sound alright?

    I think it does. I hope we don’t lose this. This is one Very Good Thing about the LDS Church religion.

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