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  • #203877
    alaskaboy19
    Guest

    I’ve been thinking alot about multiculturalism, and how much the media encourages it. Found this video that offers a slightly different perspective. Please watch the whole thing.

    [Video link removed by moderator, we’re not comfortable linking to that from our site]

    Does it have a point, or would you call it racist??

    #215629
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It’s an interesting video, but I’m not sure to think if it’s racist or not. I hope I’m not racist, so please don’t take what I’m about to say the wrong way. I have no problems with people from other nations living and working in the United States, but I have don’t agree with too many of them not learning to speak English. If Americans were living in foreign countries we would be expected to learn the official language of those countries. So why should that be any different for foreigners in the United States.

    #215630
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I watched most of it. Yes. It’s racist. It’s a soft approach perhaps, but it’s white supremacist propaganda nonetheless. We can’t link to that video from our site. I’m assuming you are asking a legitimate question, so we will *try* to turn this into a productive conversation. We can give it a try and see where it goes.

    From Dictionary.com: Racist

    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

    The video definitely hits the first two points, and indirectly implies the third.

    Not only is it racist, but grossly distorts issues of racism in the world. I’ve lived and worked in Europe and Asia, and worked with many people from Africa. The video’s message is that only “white” countries are being “invaded” by other groups via immigration. That is totally and completely untrue. Well, first off it assumes there is something wrong with diversity and interaction between cultures. That’s a problem in and of itself, which I disagree with. The best cultures in history, and most productive societies, have been the empires that encouraged diversity — taking the best ideas and practices of all peoples they came into contact with. But I don’t want to get off my point too much. Other nations have had far FAR more problems with integration than the United States and Europe. Africa: genocide in Rwanda and the Sudan between various tribes and religious factions. And in Asia, there is long-standing cultural animosity between China, Korea and Japan along racial lines. Countries in the middle-east have issues with huge amounts of imported labor from poorer Asian nations. Those are the examples that come to mind immediately.

    That whole point of view, dividing ourselves into conflicting groups by superficial attributes, is counter-productive to peace and prosperity in this world.

    #215636
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    The video’s message is that only “white” countries are being “invaded” by other groups via immigration.

    Wow. I’m a former History teacher, and all I can say is, “Wow!” If that’s the central message, it’s crap.

    It might be the case as worded, generally, since people from first-world countries seldom “invade” poorer countries “via immigration”. Instead, those countries invade poorer countries via colonization or war – often to take advantage of (or, more transparently, to steal / control) their natural resources or simply out of hatred and/or contempt for them (including the missionary efforts used to justify colonization, including Manifest Destiny in American history).

    So, in a nutshell, poor people emigrate to richer countries out of desire for a better life, while rich countries invade poorer countries out of greed and/or contempt.

    The message of the video is bass-ackwards.

    #215633
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Yes, it is very offensive and racist to assume that having an all-white country would be an advantage, and dividing people up by race does lead to many problems.

    But my questions are about whether forced assimilation is just. For instance, I heard a speech given by the former president of France in which he talked about how necessary it was to ensure that French people intermarry with the African and Muslim immigrants in France. He even made some implications that the government should pursue programs to force this. Anyone who questions this is automatically deemed a racist by the liberal media.

    The indigenous caucasian French people, as well as most other European people, are being pushed by their government to assimilate with immigrants.

    The people are supposed to change the government, the government doesn’t change the people.

    #215634
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m not sure what the point is in arguing about a hypothetical situation like you mentioned the French president saying (if that is even correct and not taken way out of context).

    Might as well worry about space aliens colonizing the Earth and forcing people to marry those with different tastes in music. That’s about as plausible.

    #215635
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brian Johnston wrote:

    I’m not sure what the point is in arguing about a hypothetical situation like you mentioned the French president saying (if that is even correct and not taken way out of context).

    Might as well worry about space aliens colonizing the Earth and forcing people to marry those with different tastes in music. That’s about as plausible.

    😆 You have a Great sense of humor Brian. The comments made here by Brian and Ray are correct. Forced assimilation is just wrong. Many south American countries were actually resource rich until American and European countries exploited their resources and drove them to a poor resource country. In return what do you think people born into a resource deprived country will do especially knowing where their resources went to? My Argentinian fiancé would give a very different video to me then that. In fact she did already. the concept of racial purity is laughable at best and at worst breeds intolerance. Intolerance for another’s race, culture and religion leads to forced assimilation. Including assimilation within ones own culture, race and religion to remain “pure”. The pain and suffering that that has brought upon the world can be seen not only by history but by those who have lived by and through the lives of others living today as a result of their lost culture and religion and extinct races.

    On vacation I had a chance to talk closely to eastern Cherokee, talking to holacaust survivers at work, permanently displaced as well as thier culture permanently destroyed because of well, people that believed in a “one true way,race, culture, religion” etc.

    People(one the whole) just want a place to live, prosper and be themselves. Without being dictated where to live or who they are or how to express themselves if they aren’t harming anyone. You can see the pain in their eyes and countenance if that hasn’t been the case. For some that runs very deep indeed.

    #215632
    Anonymous
    Guest

    White supremacy is, by definition, racism. That ideology has been commonly accepted throughout history, and it has been conflated with religion for as long as religion has existed. It is part of our own national and religious history, and it needs to be rejected as what it is.

    It’s not more complicated than that.

    If you’re interested:

    “We Must Eradicate Even Subtly Racist Messages” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/01/we-must-eradicate-even-subtly-racist.html)

    #215631
    Anonymous
    Guest

    When examining white supremecism and its historical affects including everything such as slavery, European imperialism and the holocaust, I can assure you that no one has more bitter resentment and disgust for the horrid things that were done than myself. Better trying to understand the LDS priesthood ban is one of the main reasons I came to this website in the first place.

    However, I do not think white people are the only ones capable of being racist. I honestly, honestly think that in today’s world there is more racism against white people than by white people. That’s because of the resentment everyone has for us for all that we’ve done.

    It seems that everyone has the attitude that we should just be a melting pot. Well, fact is when you blend everything together, cultural differentiation seizes to exist. There is no true diversity in the final outcome of a melting pot society.

    In France for instance, ever since so many third world immigrants have come in, there has been a sharp decline in Christianity and morality, as well as appreciation for traditional French culture. I’m not even French, but I’m not going to call any Frenchman a racist if he says they should go back to were they came from. People have a right to defend their heritage.

    #215637
    Anonymous
    Guest

    You are correct that it isn’t just one way. I tend to think of it as basic ancestral instinct growing up in the world biologically as we discovered the world around us and trying to understand it we began to form tribes. We learned to survey that “I am with my tribe, I am safe. Or that it s not my tribe, therefor I am not safe. It became a survival instinct. Then evolved into illogical reasoning once we acquired higher brain functions as we evolved. The it’s not my tribe therefore a threat mentality is used by people of all walks of life to justify there ends. A melting pot does not mean getting rid of ones own culture. I have several family members who each married outside there race, culture and at times faith. They each respect each other and live dual cultures and in some of them dual faiths together and bringing up the kids. They all have been married for years now happily with well adjusted children that are happy and respect both of their heritage and cultures. My brother for instance had a dual marriage, one by his wife’s cultural custom and one at our church. It seems fair to me that we do not rob each other of eaches cultural heritage while respecting and celebrating our similarities and differences alike.

    Regardless of what others do(reverse racism) it doesn’t give us or anyone an excuse to do likewise. That is not what Christ taught.

    #215638
    Anonymous
    Guest

    alaskaboy19 wrote:

    In France for instance, ever since so many third world immigrants have come in, there has been a sharp decline in Christianity and morality

    I served a mission in Germany 20+ years ago. I can tell you that Europe was doing just fine eliminating Christianity and faith on their own long before they started “importing” labor from Africa and the Middle-East. They didn’t need any help. The cathedrals were empty — nobody but a dozen old widows contemplating the end of their life on any given Sunday. Everyone else was out in the cafes eating pastries, drinking coffee and discussing atheist philosophy — mostly from France! :-) Nobody cared about Christianity anymore as it was. They were sick of it, and had killed each other for hundreds of years fighting over it.

    Decline in morality? Really? That can’t possibly be serious. I’ll believe that when I see French women walking around Paris covered up in burqa or hijab. ;)

    #215639
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Forgotten_Charity wrote:

    A melting pot does not mean getting rid of ones own culture. I have several family members who each married outside there race, culture and at times faith. They each respect each other and live dual cultures and in some of them dual faiths together and bringing up the kids.

    Yes, it is a beautiful spectacle when family members can coexist with varying views on faith, culture, and ethnic backrounds. But this is just what we see in one lifetime. I think that a melting pot works slowly, but irreversibly. It takes many generations for the full effects of a melting pot to be realized. In my definition, blending is when races of people or cultures or religions of people over time are exposed to new ones, and eventually stop caring about these traditions, because they don’t see the point in being different. i.e. “I accept your culture, and you accept mine, so lets just forget both of our cultures because we’re tired of being different from each other.”

    It may not happen in one or two generations, but it will happen eventually. Blending will happen eventually. Theoretically, if the whole world became a melting pot, at some far distant point in time, we would all be the same. We would all be of an ethnic group that is in fact the combination of all ethnic groups. So as dangerous as it sounds, diversity in the long run is actually dependent on homogeny at least in some places.

    To turn the table for theoretic purposes, imagine if I wanted to immigrate to an Asian country, and their government didn’t let me because I’m caucasian, I don’t think I would be offended or deem them racist. Because obviously if I move to their country, I’ll bring with me my Christianity, food, music, and language, and all these things would potentially cause a disturbance in their society. They have a right to defend their heritage for future generations.

    #215640
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It’s always easier to blame someone else for problems than to face the fact that they aren’t someone else’s fault.

    Marriage is falling apart? Blame the gays.

    Morality seems to be declining? Blame the infidels.

    Job productivity is decreasing? Blame Facebook.

    Promiscuity is rising? Blame the media.

    Hogwash.

    IF those things are happening (and I”m not convinced they are happening, since, as a history teacher, I am well aware of how weak marriage and morality and job productivity have been and how rampant promiscuity has been for thousands of years), they are happening because “WE” are dropping the ball – not because “THEY” are corrupting our wonderful society.

    I believe we should try to fix our own house before complaining about the conditions of other houses. If America is being killed, the descendants of Americans who came here earlier are doing the killing – not the immigrants who come here now.

    If marriage is failing, it’s heterosexuals who are causing the failure, not homosexuals.

    If morality is failing, it’s Christians who are causing the failure, not Muslims and atheists.

    If promiscuity is rising, it’s the religious who are fueling that rise, not the non-religious.

    etc., etc., etc.

    If this country (and others) fall, it will be “we” who make it happen, not “them”.

    Finally, I personally like the image of the salad bowl more than the melting pot, since it all looks the same eventually, anyway. 😳

    #215641
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brian Johnston wrote:


    Decline in morality? Really? That can’t possibly be serious. I’ll believe that when I see French women walking around Paris covered up in burqa or hijab. ;)

    I thought your sarcasm was funny so thanks, but in my definnition, morality is disrespect for women in any way. So guess what, I don’t think a culture that forces it’s women to wear burqa or hijab is moral. We mormon americans think of immorality as the inappropriate sexualization of women, but we forget that there is another extreme on the far other side of the spectrum that is in fact the over-controlling of women that prevents them from expressing themselves.

    Regarding your words Ray, yes I definately agree that throwing around blame is a coward’s approach to any problem. But in order to solve a problem, you have to eradicate the source of the problem. I do believe that the leftist media is responsible for some of America’s problems. I’m not blaming them, I’m accusing them based on evidence. Yes, bad things have always existed, but I truly think they are worse today. For instance, the effects of drugs and pornography have never been as signifigant as they are today. They have grown EXPONENTIALLY within the last century.

    You can definately control and protect the course of your own lifestyle; the decisions you make and the culture you live. BUT, you owe it to your children and your childrens’ children to at least try and eliminate some of the evil influences that you know will try to persuade them and take advantage of them if they get the chance.

    #215642
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Old-Timer wrote:


    Finally, I personally like the image of the salad bowl more than the melting pot, since it all looks the same eventually, anyway. 😳

    Thank you for your link Ray. I find this interesting that my old college history teacher said the same thing basically ” personally I think the USA is more like a tossed salad then a melting pot”. Was what he said in class.

    When things go wrong we look to place blame, a scape goat. Easier and better in the minds of many to place blame on the one rather then many. Look what happens when the economy turns south, we blame one person as if congress or the people voting don’t also share a part. Scape goat is scape goat, doesn’t require thought or effort.

    Personally I am not interested in fixing blame, just the problem. I find that much more productive and satisfying. How does placing blame or guilt promote charity?

    The French as with quite a few countries are tired from hundreds do years of war from christian and Muslim crusades. Since 3 major religions battle for the “holy capital”. I get to listen to a few of them at lunch at McDonald’s regularly.

    They have frequent conversations of religions being the cause of most wars/deaths. That is their personal take because of the centuries of war behind it they are just very tired of it all. Kind of like the burned over district in New York. The world will burn in hell mantra wore many people out after hearing it repeatedly countless times. America is a much younger country and doesn’t have the 100s of years of history behind that.

    I personally don’t take that position but from all the world is more evil and corrupt then any time since Noah and repentance before it is too late mantra that I grew up with, I can relate and understand even if I don’t see it quite the same way they do. Anyone can get burned out from too much of anything.

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