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3-01-09 I was praying and teary eyed, asking God for guidance as to how I could stay in the church and not be miserable, when one of my best friends sent me the link to this group early this morning. So, whoever started this group was truly inspired. Here is some of my story: Even though I was raised in the church by convert parents, had a strong testimony, and went on a mission to Austria, I too have struggled with my testimony at times. Even with my belief in God. I did not marry until I was 25 and I know the pressure there is to get married and have kids in the church. There have been several times that I felt like a misfit in the church and did not belong. My husband, raised as an atheist, and a scientist, had a hard time with faith and religion. He went to Catholic Parochial school as a child but that turned him off to religion. The Mormon faith was the first religion that made any sense to him and he joined on an intellectual testimony hoping the spiritual one would come. When it didn’t, he left the church and I found myself crying my eyes out in a fast and testimony meeting one Sunday. I was begging the Lord to tell me why he had not given a good man like my husband a spiritual witness,
Something very unexpectedly happened then. A clear thought came through my head that said, “Why don’t you go visit that 7th Day Adventist church around the corner?” I thought, “Where did that come from?” and then the thought came to me two more times. I told my husband about it and we decided to follow that prompting. I met with the pastor of that church several times and the things he gave me to read answered some important questions I had. You see I had been doing all the right things in the church, (paying tithing, going to the temple, etc. etc) but none of the blessings seemed to be coming. In fact everything had gotten worse. My kids were in trouble and my husband did not get his raise, the car and washer broke down, and now he left the church. Where we all the blasted blessings they kept preaching about from the pulpit. Then I came across some anti-Mormon stuff from the Tanners that quoted out of church history and Journal of Discourses. For the first time I thought that the church might be false.
This 7th day adventist pastor handed me a little book called “The 5 Day Plan to Know God.” As I was reading, it talked about how the Jews were waiting for their Messiah to come save them from all their trials. When he came and told them he came to save them from their sins not their problems they were ticked off. A light bulb went off in me and I realized I was like those early Jews waiting for God to save me from all my problems. Suddenly I realized I had been living the gospel for the wrong reasons. I knew immediately that the only thing I should be concerned about is being saved from my sins and that is why Jesus died for me. When my husband joined the church the missionaries assumed he had the milk of the gospel (faith in Jesus Christ) but he didn’t. Sometimes in the lds church we concentrate so much on the meat we neglect the milk of the gospel. Other churches mostly have the milk so it is often highly concentrated there. We left the church for two years and investigated the 7th Day church, but one day as they were teaching us a class on the signs of a true prophet, my husband and I looked at each other and knew they were talking about Joseph Smith. Then two books called the “Gainsayers” and “Are Mormons Christian” came into my hands and answered many of my questions. Plus we met every week for a year with a man in our old ward who had a Masters degree in Church history. I had never prayed so hard to know if the church was true or not. I cried and cried for a while thinking I had been betrayed by the church, like a woman who had found out her husband had cheated on her. We finally came back to the church and had a much stronger testimony, but during that time I asked the Lord about the 7th Day Adventist church and Ellen G. White and other churches (my daughter had joined the Baptist church and my daughter in law was Lutheran). The Lord spoke to me and said the following: “Although the lds church has the fullness of the gospel, I work through all the churches and they are all my people. That other churches are like stepping stones to the full truth. Not everyone can handle the fullness right away. You cannot take a junk food junkie and make them a health food nut overnight. Line upon line. So, at times God leads people to good Christian churches that may prepare them for the fullness eventually.
Remember that when Jesus told Joseph Smith that the other churches had teachings that were an abomination in His eyes, he never said the people or the churches were an abomination just the teachings. Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc, were all reformers and stepping stones towards the truth. I personally prefer to tell people we have the fullness of the gospel instead of saying the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, implying how false they are. My dad was such a wonderful convert to this church. He would meet a Baptist or Lutheran and tell them how wonderful it was that they were Christians and all the things he loved about their faith. Then he would say, “If you can show me that your church has more to offer than mine, I will gladly join your church,” and then a wonderful discussion would pursue.
My dad joined the Mormon church in Germany when he was 25 trying to show his best friend how false this church was. The first time he stepped into a Mormon church he had prayed for God to let him know what kind of a church this was. Shortly after he stepped into the church he noticed his wallet had been stolen. He thought, “Ok, here’s my answer, they are a den of thieves.” As he was leaving he decided to stop and listen to the branch president that was talking at the time. He said, “If you have come to this church to find perfect people, you will be greatly disappointed, but if you want to know if the teachings are true, you will find the truth. Just like with Joseph Smith, Satan arrived first, then God.
Each of us can only go by our own personal experiences. I still struggle with things in the church but, I do know that when I cry out to the Lord he answers my prayers; sometimes in the most unusual ways.
Wow – thanks for sharing such a great story. I hope you enjoy the site and find what you seek here. I think a lot of people get sucked into that notion that if you do A, God will do B. Blessings do come, but so does adversity–it’s not a predictable formula! I sometimes think that the real message of the gospel is detachment. Looking for blessings in recompense for obedience is the opposite of detachment. Another book you might enjoy is Jesus before Christianity by Albert Nolan. It also covers this notion of what Christ’s contemporaries expected of him. A great read.
Thanks for sharing such a wonderful story. Welcome to StayLDS. I agree with you that the world is full of beautiful people acting on the impulses of the Spirit, and from God to love and share the Gospel. You didn’t have what you needed from the LDS Chruch in that moment in your life. God reached out and guided you from one person to another, each with a message to share that was perfect for you. I love that idea. Our Church is great. It has a lot of exciting and profoundly deep “truths.” Let’s face it though, we aren’t perfect at being everything to everyone in every circumstance. I think a lot of us here have brought in extra resources from outside to supplement us spiritually. The Spirit will guide us to just the right fruits to satisfy our desire for divine guidance and sanctification.
oh yeah, one more thing. I am excited to have you here. You mentioned the book your wrote about your experience with your son and his SSA. You are an invaluable asset to the LDS community. That issue is something that our church needs to deal with in a much different way. We need people inside our church to be the voices of change, however that works out in the end. Outside influences just makes the organization dig in it’s heels and resist.
Thank you so much for your replies. You know the 13th article of faith tells us if there is anything virtuous or of good report we seek after these things. And, I think it was JS that said ‘We accept truth whereever we find it.” Sometimes, I have found members thinking that we are the only ones that have any truth. I recall, a young sister in our ward working with me as a PR person for the stake and visiting another church with me on a project with ‘Churches United”. The pastor was saying some really great truths and this sister made a comment, “Well, these churches don’t have the truth only ours does.” It drove me nuts. I taught gospel doctrine class for 4 years and also the investigators class for 4 years. They ward members loved my classes because I related the lessons to their everyday lives and with humor. But, I used outside sources to make my point at times. Suddenly, I was told I could only use the 4 standard works and Ensign material. I said, Well,I have heard GA’ quote mother Teresa and Billy Graham at times and I quoted them the 13th article of faith. Well, they told me that only the GA’s can do that because they are superior to me. They said the stake president has decided this and that is it. I told them I was sorry, but I could not teach then and asked to be released. I also appreciate your comments on my book. There is a wonderful quote by Robert Bly: “It says that where a man’s wound is, that is where his genius will be. Wherever the wound appears in our psyches….that is precisely the place from which we will give our major gift to the community.” This journey with our son has been very difficult but if forced me to grow like nothing else and learn so much along the way. At times though the church has been a hinderance though because of FEAR (false evidence appearing real). When I was the ward Public Relations person for our stake, we were told to find note worthy things ward members were involved with in the community so they could advertize that for the church in local newspapers. Well, I shared with them how I had started a local chapter of PFOX (Parents and Friends of exgays and gays) in the Quad Cities and most were excited about helping me advertize that, but the Stake High priest leader told me no because he said he contacted Salt Lake and they do not want to deal with this issue. That made me so mad as I had the whole local evangelical community behind me. Over the years I have really had to separate the gospel from the people in the church or I would have gone crazy.
Thank goodness, I think for myself and try to get my own personal revelation. One time I was coming out of the Chicago temple feeling so empty inside (I have not had good experiences in the temple for some reason) and I walked into the local lds book store and there was this small book just standing out there for me called, ‘[For those who Wonder’. It was about people who have doubts and questions in the church yet want to stay in the church. So, those answers to prayers get me through alot.
btw. this June I will be in Denmark, Germany, and Austria for 3 weeks. I will finally meet the gay youth I wrote my book with and his partner and some other gays I have befriend in Europe. I will also get to see where I was born in Berlin and left at 3 years old and where I served my mission in Austria.
[/quote] I still struggle with things in the church but, I do know that when I cry out to the Lord he answers my prayers; sometimes in the most unusual ways.[/quote] I don’t know how to use the quote feature yet. Hopefully I did it right.
😆 I love this sentence. That is so true so many times. Sometimes I expect a bright light and a burning in the bosom but I get a slap to the face (of course I deserve it). Thanks for your thoughts.Welcome, bridget – and thanks for sharing such a wonderful story. You might be interested in the following post, more for the sense of God knowing us and our needs than for anything else:
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/02/our-father-knows-us-better-than-we.html Old-Timer wrote:
You might be interested in the following post, more for the sense of God knowing us and our needs than for anything else:http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/02/our-father-knows-us-better-than-we.html That was a really nice link. It is nice to hear stories of how the lord uses others to bless us and how sometimes we need the one to help with the blessings.
bridget_night wrote:“Although the lds church has the fullness of the gospel, I work through all the churches and they are all my people. That other churches are like stepping stones to the full truth. Not everyone can handle the fullness right away. You cannot take a junk food junkie and make them a health food nut overnight. Line upon line. So, at times God leads people to good Christian churches that may prepare them for the fullness eventually.
Remember that when Jesus told Joseph Smith that the other churches had teachings that were an abomination in His eyes, he never said the people or the churches were an abomination just the teachings. Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc, were all reformers and stepping stones towards the truth.
I am glad you are here. I am glad you are in the church. This is a safe place to share your revelations.
I love your revelation. I love how it includes no closing quote. Sure, I make that “mistake” all the time, but in this context it has meaning for me. You never know where the revelation ends and humanity begins, or if there is such a place.
To me, the revelation applies universally like this: “I work through all the churches and they are all my people.” All churches are like stepping stones to the full truth. Nobody can handle the fullness right away. You cannot take a junk food junkie and make them a health food nut overnight. Line upon line. So, God leads people to good churches that prepare them for the fullness. See my signature line.
Thanks for your posts happy mom and Tom. I really appreciated your thoughts and comments. Tom you said see my signature line? Could not see that? What is that? I am so glad to have a group where I can share my unusual experiences and be myself. I really am more of a moderate and spirit of the law kind of gal. I don’t fit in with those real hostile to the church nor do I fit in with those who are blind believers and molly Mormons. It is hard to find a place where you feel accepted. So, I really am happy to be here. Bridget Oh, my signature line is “Sure, any church would do. But I’m LDS.” I’m trying to learn to be a spirit of the law kind of person. That’s why I am here. I suppose I am a recovering absolutist. My default reaction was drop the church and join a monastery. But I didn’t do that. And most people in the ward probably don’t know anything ever changed for me.
I feel just like you bridget night. It is hard to fit into the blindly believing when you know some of the falicies and yet you do not want to take out religion. I’m glad you’re on here. happymom wrote:I feel just like you bridget night. It is hard to fit into the blindly believing when you know some of the falicies and yet you do not want to take out religion. I’m glad you’re on here.
I know what you mean. Yesterday I taught the Gospel Doctrine class “The only true & living Church”, and I really raised some eyebrows. Even had one fellow say something about “sticking to the manual” — but hey, at least I didn’t get into the Buddhist saying “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!”! I could have – it was ‘on topic’ so to speak…But I *did* get into the 1 Cor. scripture about “when I was a child I thought as a child”, equating it to how I felt about my dad when I was 5 or 6 years old. In my eyes, he could do no wrong. Now as I approach 50, I see his strengths and his weaknesses. I love him more ‘truly’ than I did as a child, knowing these things and what he’s been through in his life.
Then I said that when I said “I know the Church is true” as an 8-year-old, I meant something entirely different than what I mean when I say it today. It is not on a false pedestal to be worshipped, etc. etc. But in both cases, I was/am entirely serious and sincere. I *do* know the Church is true! I had a High Councilor, a former Bishop and others in the class give me positive feedback. And the former polygamist in our neighborhood who is trying to re-join the church (his second wife recently passed away) said I was braver than he is. A compliment indeed.
Well, I’m in a position where I can afford to say such things. So, I do.
HiJolly
That’s really neat, HiJolly. Can you expand on being “in a position” where you can afford to say such things? You mean your age? Tom Haws wrote:That’s really neat, HiJolly. Can you expand on being “in a position” where you can afford to say such things? You mean your age?
Well, it’s a combination of factors. (1) My primary calling is a General Church calling (in SLC), where I represent the Church a lot in public. The calling requires a current TR. Everybody knows.* (2) I’ve been teaching the Gospel Doctrine class this year, and I don’t think anyone can doubt that I really have a testimony. I’ve been bearing my testimony powerfully and the Spirit has attended us. (3) My family– we have lots of kids, the oldest are married in the temple, my wife has a very visible Stake RS calling, etc., etc., (I know, all that doesn’t mean squat, but some people think it does…) (4) I guess my age might be a factor… I have lots of gray/white hair…BTW, Tom, did you grow up behind the old Safeway there in Mesa?
HiJolly
* BTW, I’ve held this calling for some eight years, and my crisis of faith was all the more poignant because of how things might have affected me, my family, and to some extent, the Church.
Let’s see. The old Safeway. Wasn’t that at Main and Horne, near the Inter-stake center? Am I thinking of the right place? Actually, that’s my dad’s uncle James who lives there. I guess I must confess it’s still confusing to me what you mean by testimony. Then again, it’s probably confusing to others when I say I have a testimony. I certainly loathe to aspire to ever believe a Latter-day Saint has an absolute leg up on a Community of Christ adherent or a Catholic or a Buddhist. Or that Joseph Smith is more significant to mankind than Pope Benedict or the Dalai Lama or Saint Francis of Assisi or Mother Teresa or the Bhudda. He’s significant to me. But that’s because I am LDS.
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