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How does it work? Is it open to interpretation? The Bible says ten percent of your annual increase, if you’re in the hole (mortgage, student loans, etc) technically you have no increase. When you go for a recommend interview, do they take your word that you have been paying an honest tithe, or must you somehow produce documentation to prove it? Hi, dcharles. You might say that among us everything is open to interpretation. But of course that’s only the letter of the law, which killeth. The spirit of the Law, which giveth life, is radically inviting. So you must do what you feel you need to do with the letter and the church and the authority and the piece of paper, but….
All of the above affects the spirit. And according to the spirit, the more you let go, the better off you are.
If
Iwere running the church, I would interpret the Doctrine and Covenants passage on tithing to mean that every year at the end of the year you donate 1/10 of your gross worth to the church. Already gave it all away during the year? Nothing due. Made money hand over first? Give 1/10 of your worth. Still living on that inheritance from your uncle? Give another 1/10 of what’s left. Got debt? Doesn’t work; stay out. Forget this income stuff. That’s just a weird, convoluted capitalist’s spin on the word interest. Interest is your stake in something. Pay 1/10 of all your interest annually.
Officially, it is up to you. Pay on gross or net – pay on gifts or not – pay it with every check or monthly or annually – etc. I’ve never been asked for proof or explanation, and I’ve never asked for proof or explanation. Some people will give advice, and much of it will be excellent, but it’s only advice. Honestly, I might make an exception to that if I was a bishop IF the member claiming to be a full tithe payer was living a life of relative luxury but paying very low tithing, but generally it is considered to be a self-declaration – both in tithing settlement and in a temple recommend interview.
What Ray said. Yes what Ray said, and what Tom said. I believe tithing exists to help us learn to give and to be a little less selfish. Ultimately it’s between you and the Lord, have faith in your own ability to get answers regarding what is right for you. Many guidelines have been offered, there are always different ways of interpreting those guidelines. Whatever you personally feel right about is right for you. Sometimes the lesson may be about gaining that personal assurance. Adding to what Ray said: at my last tithing settlement my bishop made an effort not to look at the numbers on the sheet when he asked for my declaration. I thought it was an effort to say “this is between you and the Lord, I’m not the one that needs to accept your contribution” and I appreciated that.
To bring up an older topic from the forum… when did Tithing become a requirement that you must declare “full-tithe” (whatever that means to you) to get a temple recommend?
Why is paying fast offerings not held to the same line of questioning as tithing? Tithing has a standard (1/10th). FO has a standard…pay fast offerings on what would be the value of the skipped meals (interpret that what you want), but no one asks about fast offerings in temple recommend interviews, only tithing.
Why is that?
Heber13 wrote:To bring up an older topic from the forum…
when did Tithing become a requirement that you must declare “full-tithe” (whatever that means to you) to get a temple recommend?
Why is paying fast offerings not held to the same line of questioning as tithing? Tithing has a standard (1/10th). FO has a standard…pay fast offerings on what would be the value of the skipped meals (interpret that what you want), but no one asks about fast offerings in temple recommend interviews, only tithing.
Why is that?
To my understanding Tithing is an ancient tribute that has almost always been used. Fast offerings are reletively new. I believe the funds are kept entirely separate. Fast offerings are used for people in the ward who fall on hard times and need food etc. The Widow, the single mother, people like that. I have a hard time paying tithing. But I always pay fast offerings because I don’t wonder or doubt that the funds are being used for a good purpose.
Heber13 wrote:when did Tithing become a requirement that you must declare “full-tithe” (whatever that means to you) to get a temple recommend?
I don’t know, but…in the 1850’s Utah Reformation, a list of questions was drafted for the Ward Teachers to take around to each member to encourage retrenchment. If there was no tradition of question-asking before then, that is probably when it got started.
In visiting Valley Unitarian Universalist Church Sunday, I was interested to see that on the first Sunday of every month, all the donations receive go to a charity rather than to the church fund. Possibly unrelated, but hints like that make me realize a lot of our traditions (like the curse of Cain) may come from the greater Christian community.
1850’s sounds like a good answer. (thanks for playing, Tom). Anyone else know why Tithing is a temple recommend question and Fast Offerings is not?
Tithing has been around since old testament times, giving alms to the poor has been around just as long as I can tell. In the last dispensation, how did the line get drawn in the sand on the difference between these 2 types of charitable donations?
Tithing keeps the temples open and being built; fast offerings don’t? Heber13 wrote:when did Tithing become a requirement that you must declare “full-tithe” (whatever that means to you) to get a temple recommend?
I don’t know but I sure don’t get why. Of course I don’t really get why there’s a TR at all to be honest. It’s like an elitist club of arbitrary worthiness. Do I obey the WoW? Well, I don’t drink, smoke, or drink coffee or tea, but I drink 15 energy drinks each day. So yep, I obey the WoW. Honestly, what difference does it make. Is the spirit of the Lord somehow less likely to be there if there are “unworthy” people there, or people who don’t pay their tithing? I highly doubt it given that the Lord’s mission on earth was to help the spiritually sick.As for tithing, I can’t help but be a little cynical about the whole thing. Why is it required? How about so that the church can maintain a steady flow of income to build temples, meeting houses, and, oh yeah, shopping malls (yes, I know no tithing funds were used, but if they have that kind of money how about putting it toward what tithing goes to and giving us a break during rough economic times? I guess that’s not the Lord’s way right?)! I mean why not make it optional (and still be able to attend the temple)? What would be the downside? To me, it’s one more rule to keep to get into the elitist worthiness club while missing the spirit of the law altogether. Does the Lord really require me to tithe my increase in order to obtain His blessing as prescribed by the LDS church? Reality says it’s unlikely (at least to me).
Sorry, for the cynical comment.
A few years ago my bishop called me in to ask why I suddenly started paying tithing since I did not go to church. My reply was that I needed my sales to start closing at a better rate than they had been and I knew that paying tithing would likely do the trick. I admitted it was a purely selfish act, and that my sales had indeed improved. He laughed, said OK get out of here.
I have since learned that God being the god of all people, rewards everyone of all faiths who pay tithing with the same blessings we receive.
You know what? I’ll bet he even answers their prayers.
I think you need to be careful about associating faithfulness and obedience with rewards and prosperity. I honestly do not believe that one begets the other (look at Job). There are people all over the world who are profoundly Godless and horrible human beings that have a tremendous amount of success and material wealth. By contrast there are many people who devoutly follow their religion, whatever that may be, that barely get by. Besides that, doing something for personal benefit or material gain misses the point entirely. We should do these things out of love and thanksgiving towards God without expectation of recognition or reward. It’s all about acting selflessly, not selfishly.
Riches unsearchable do await those who sell all for the kingdom of heaven. But as long as our eye is on the things of the world, we will never see the kingdom of heaven. Fowler’s Stages of Faith apply here. It may be helpful for us to understand better all the Stages including 2. “For persons in a given stage at the right time for their lives, the task is the full realization and integration of the strengths and graces of that stage rather than rushing on to the next stage. Each stage has the potential for wholeness, grace and integrity and for strengths sufficient for either life’s blows or blessings.”
Thanks for posting that, Tom. It gets to the heart of why I try very hard not to get arrogant and think my own stage whatever is better / more advanced than someone else’s stage whatever. Some people really can find great production, joy, satisfaction, peace, service, love, etc. at a Stage 2 or 3 – and to try to shove them into a Stage 4 existence that is not right for them just to have some company . . . We need to remember always that if we want others to respect our reality, we simply MUST respect theirs – and generally model that acceptance for them before they can grant it to us.
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