The Church needs a prophet. (?)

There are serious issues that have to be confronted when we stop hanging onto infallibility, but I believe we simply MUST stop asking our prophets to be what prophets never have been.

Well said, Ray.

What is a prophet? If we can define that, we can respond to LLL’s question on how to answer if we believe TSMonson is one.

My definition: Called by God to be His messenger and is the deciding authority for the church on the earth. The prophet doesn’t have to be speaking for God ALL THE TIME, but when God wants a message sent, He will use His prophet to send it through. If the Holy Spirit inspires others, the prophet will be the authority to state if it is from God and correct, or will correct it through his authority as prophet.

I believe God accepts and supports His prophets, even if they aren’t perfect. Like the Brother of Jared, the idea of using crystals to light a ship may or may not be the best way God can light a ship, but hey, if that’s what the prophet asked, and it is acceptable to God, it becomes God’s will when He accepts it as such. The Word of Wisdom may be the same thing.

The events of the lost 116 pages teach that the prophet’s will doesn’t become the Lord’s will just because the man desires it, so sometimes the prophets are allowed to fail to humble them, but God will not allow the prophet to be wrong without correcting them so that we can have confidence in a leader that will be directed/corrected/connected. Opening the door to them possibly being wrong at times is the part that gets very sticky, IMO, for many people to have faith in them. That is why dead prophets are easier to revere than living prophets, especially since the dead prophets have the help of a faithful recorder that can make them look good.

So for me, I have to answer: Will TS Monson be the one to receive God’s message, and will he be corrected if he makes a mistake?

if I believed President Monson was a “True Prophet”, one that talked to God face to face continuously-not just got revelation-I mean really speaks directly to him day by day

The fact that this doesn’t even fit Jesus is a point that can’t be overlooked. We’re not going to have constant access on earth. It’s just not in the cards. And prophets are going to make their own mark, not just God’s.

There was a very insightful chapter on Prophecy & Revelation in the book David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism. If you want more insight into how the top leadership really works, this is a great read. It’s also pretty clear that while Pres. McKay became comfortable with expressing what he felt was revelation for the church (easiest to tell, BTW, when it conflicts with his own wishes & opinions), he still expressed many opinions that were not based in revelation that were just his role as leader of the church–him doing his best as a man who sought guidance from God. What’s difficult to me is when the prophet is expressing something that is so clearly his own opinion. That always gives me a little pause. When the prophet says something with which he personally would disagree or that stretches his thinking, I find it easier to say, “Well, that must be from revelation and not his own viewpoint.”

But to have that perspective means that I am inherently suspicious and potentially dismissive of anything on which God & the prophet might happen to agree (especially if it differs from my own opinion). So I have long felt that the only remedy to that situation is for each of us to become good enough at personal revelation that we have a safety net–we are told that we are entitled to personal confirmation of revelation that the prophet has received. Yet, I’m not fallible at it yet. I gotta work on that! But that’s my approach. It’s just more work than “follow the prophet / he knows the way.”

Maybe a prophet/leader is for people who need a go-between? We should be getting our own revelation.

Maybe a prophet/leader is a stumbling block.

It’s possible that we actually have a king/leader rather than a prophet/leader.

Anyone can be given the gift of prophesy-man, woman, any age. But the current church is pretty squimish about calling anyone a prophet(ess) who is not THE Prophet. Actually, it seems like the church is pretty reluctant to acknowledge the gift of prophesy. They say we have it, but I can’t find any recent prophesies.

It seems like a prophet usually prophesies of Christ or end times events. They also preach repentance.

Here’s the church’s definition:

Prophets

As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are blessed to be led by living prophets—inspired men called to speak for the Lord, as did Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, Nephi, Mormon, and other prophets of the scriptures. We sustain the President of the Church as prophet, seer, and revelator—the only person on the earth who receives revelation to guide the entire Church. We also sustain the counselors in the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators

I think that would be different from the gift of prophecy, which can be given to men or women, or patriarchs, or fathers or mothers in personal situations.

Here’s the church’s definition:

Prophets

As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are blessed to be led by living prophets—inspired men called to speak for the Lord, as did Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, Nephi, Mormon, and other prophets of the scriptures. We sustain the President of the Church as prophet, seer, and revelator—the only person on the earth who receives revelation to guide the entire Church. We also sustain the counselors in the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators

I think that would be different from the gift of prophecy, which can be given to men or women, or patriarchs, or fathers or mothers in personal situations.

So this makes more sense. The prophet will be an inspired Man(Is that always? Will it ever be a woman?..We will probably never know b/c we will all, I’m sure, be dead before that were to ever happen). We are all prophets (equally, so long as we are inspired) BUT only ONE (Man at this time) is choosen at a time to be the Spokesperson for the Church.

So is the only big problem when members think HIS prophetic words trumph their own(assuming they are both equally inspired)? Is that when people make the mistake of followng blindly and as JUST ME said – NEED a Go-Between – b/c they do not trust in themselves or believe in themselves to have the most correct answers? – Is prophet worship the problem?

I have an example I am in favor of gay marraige ( mostly for political reasons not religious reasons ). The GA’s at this point would say I am wrong. Is there some type of illusion there of each member really having honest personal revelation and guidance when really the Church leaders will not lead as astray in te present time .. What is the point then? Why will the GA’s not admit that my anwser is also correct.

This is something I found in a discussion: That turns my redefining into nothing!

“while we acknowledge the possibility (and probability) of errors existing within the Church, wisdom and humility should prevent each of us from concluding that our judgment and spiritual discernment is superior to that of our Church leaders. Accordingly, none of us should conclude we possess the superior judgment necessary to identify those errors; that task has been assigned to our leaders.”

There are errors in the church. But if you happen across one ignore it, because you’re too dumb to know it’s an error. Besides if it really is an error the leaders will surely inform you. It’s an illusion of honest investigation: you’re allowed to ask, but you won’t be correct.

Sorry I have no idea where I got this from both quotes were on a blog, I believe .. but I save little things like this on a note pad to think about.

I can try to redefine it all I want but in the end the Church leaders really do think it is not our job to have the gift of prophecy-or at least they conclude that will never be on the same level of truth as theirs.

I can try to turn it and say well they are speaking for the organization not the individual .. but the organization/individual are like the heart and brain .. they can’t live without the other .. Every Church belief should equal my belief b/c the Church is right .. if it were not right they would fix it .. leaving it always to be updated on right-ness Wooo … Maybe I’m better off leaving this alone for a while.

I can’t really add much more to the definitions so far, good responses.

LaLaLove, it sounds like you are not yet comfortable letting go of your notions and expectations of “the prophet.” You seem to know that something is wrong with the way you are thinking because it doesn’t make sense to you. But it also seems like you are not letting go of those things that trouble you. It seems like you are really close to that essential breakthrough.

I can’t tell you the right answer, but I think you are getting close. There are ways to reconcile this. My personal way is to have much lower personal expectations of what a “prophet” is and does. I think they are just regular people with divine messages. I don’t see it as very precise though, and not about talking to God “face to face.” I observe that these “prophets” throughout history sort of get a fuzzy message, and the edges aren’t quite clear. The message I hear from a prophet might be different from the person sitting next to me.

Another thing that helps me, is that my personal revelation trumps all others (for myself). I am ok with that, even if it requires a great deal of personal responsibility on my part. I could really screw up and get it wrong. I’m ok with that too. On some level, I don’t really care what someone with the title “prophet” says unless through them, I hear a message for me from God. I don’t always hear that. *shrug* but then again, I am one of 6 billion people on the planet. A prophet might not have a message for me every time.

Well, I used to think that everything the prophet taught was from God and you couldn’t honestly get a different answer than his. 😮

That is how I was also raised too. It was the standard idea taught for a long, long time… but it is kind of like a Santa Claus story in a way. I mean there were people before that understood that prophets are just people, and they are not infallible. It is a hard adjustment, but it is and adjustment we can make. We need to make it in order to become spiritual “adults” in a sense.

You are right though, that is how I used to understand it too.