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  • #204028
    Anonymous
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    I’ve heard the comment many times “you can choose to believe whatever you want”; I believe this statement has validity, with conditions.

    Can I choose to believe the sunny sky is pink, or that healthy grass is red? These things are known beyond any question (at least according to modern definition) so my ability to choose an alternate belief is removed.

    Can I choose to believe that my favorite sports team will win their next game? Absolutely, the outcome is not KNOWN in a tangible physical sense – so I am free to choose any belief that feels right to me. This is the realm of personal “truth”, as Ray mentioned recently there is a difference between personal truth and physical or “universal” truth. While undoubtedly there are universal truths that we as humans don’t currently understand, our subjective personal truths – the things that have deep meanings for us personally but cannot be proven externally – should be considered as valid as any other person’s. I think being Christ-like is honoring and respecting the traditions, cultures, and beliefs of others as we respect our own. And we show the greatest humility and maturity when we realize that some of our personal truths (like our favorite team winning) may need some adjustment down the road.

    #217545
    Anonymous
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    Quote:

    our subjective personal truths – the things that have deep meanings for us personally but cannot be proven externally – should be considered as valid as any other person’s.

    I think the danger of saying that personal truths are just as valid is that it assumes all people are rational and respectful of others. There are things that others may feel are personal truths to them, but can be wrong and should not be tolerated. This would be if their truth leads them to act in ways that harm others. I can allow a muslim to believe in his truth even if I think it is totally wrong and my mormon truth will one day be made known, and that is a difference of opinion, because like you said, it can not be proven externally. However, his truth that drives him to extremism such as a suicide bomber situation can not be considered just as valid as free members of our society. Besides that extreme example, there are examples in relationships in marriage where the other person can be wrong, and it hurts the rest of the family if allowed to continue, despite whether the person believes it is truth for them or not .

    There are situations when subjective personal truths are in conflict, and they can not all be valid. Personal truths are subjective to the individual’s perspectives, and those perspectives may or may not be in line with the “real truth” or universal truth.

    Did I misunderstand your point, or does that make sense? :?

    #217546
    Anonymous
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    Absolutely, I made many assumptions with that original post – one being that personal truths essentially lead people to become better for themselves and for society.

    I also agree that individual perceptions may be out of harmony with physical factual truth. This is why I think that “we show the greatest humility and maturity when we realize that some of our personal truths may need adjustment.” I like that changes in church policies have on occasion shown this type of humility and maturity.

    Personally, I feel I am on the most stable ground when my personal beliefs are not in a position to be proven contrary by physical means (as Henry Eyring often said, “Mormon Scientist”). Going back to Elder Oaks talk on testimony – I wouldn’t pray to know the temperature outside because that knowledge can be learned through physical means. Right now I like to completely separate the physical from the spiritual – thus my avatar.

    #217547
    Anonymous
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    Bump. I thought someone mentioned this topic recently.

    #217548
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Maybe this short article helps in this situation:

    Can Faith Be a Decision?

    Dealing with the Spiritual Slumps

    By Darla Isackson

    1. Lately I’ve been in a spiritual slump. Day after day the spiritual feelings haven’t come. I keep wondering what is wrong. I experienced such an outpouring of the Spirit for months after my son’s death, but right now I’m feeling nothing. My last few visits to the temple have been pleasant experiences, but haven’t birthed one spiritual feeling. I continue to read the scriptures, but inexplicably not one verse jumps out at me, not one ah hah! comes, not one spiritual reassurance brings tears of joy.

    This morning I awoke with my mind full of possible answers. I suspect that faith is more a decision than a feeling. My feelings are fickle, and can change with the weather, with my level of physical well-being, with the ups and downs of daily life. I may feel some days that my spiritual efforts are fruitless, or that the Lord is simply not listening to me, but feelings are not facts. Yes, the Holy Ghost often speaks through my feelings—but so can the adversary! When I give the voice of the adversary any credence at all, the feelings that result may be discouragement, self-doubt, bitterness, disillusion, depression.

    I have found in my recent circumstance that many times faith is a decision—the only decision that makes any sense. Some days I have made the decision in favor of faith simply because I couldn’t bear the misery of the alternative. Regardless, I am learning that I can choose in favor of faith no matter how I feel. My feelings may be strongly affected by physical maladies, fatigue, and negative thoughts. But my inner compass, my spirit self is not. I KNOW the gospel is true even when I do not FEEL it, and I KNOW it because I have the witness of countless others, a multitude of spiritual witnesses I have received myself, and a lifetime of evidence from trying an experiment on the word (see Alma 32). The latter is an example of the kind of action that springs from a decision to plant the seeds from which strong faith can grow.

    When DOING Must Come Before KNOWING.

    I recall a character in Gerald Lund’s Work and the Glory series named Will. He struggled for months trying to get his own testimony of the truthfulness of the Church and the Book of Mormon, but felt nothing. Finally, one day he came across a scripture that contained the words, “”If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God of whether I speak of myself.” (John 7:17) Will pondered the sequence of the words: “Do . . . . and then you shall know. . .” He finally recognized that he had been wanting to KNOW before he made the full effort to DO. But it is so often by the DOING that the KNOWING comes. When Will made the decision to be obedient, to move ahead and DO, the feeling of sure testimony followed soon after.

    Following Alma’s advice to DO an experiment on the word is always the best way to learn whether the word is true. I have to plant the seed of faith, than nurture it, before I can feel the seed swelling and growing. I have to make the effort, make the decision, otherwise my ground is barren and nothing happens.

    Sometimes the doing is simply affirming in the moment what my mind tells me is true and acting on it–regardless of my current feelings or lack thereof. One example is: when I choose to bear testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel when I think it is appropriate, the moment I carry out that action, the Holy Ghost greatly increases my feelings of testimony, and I am strengthened.

    Corrie Ten Boom learned this principle in a poignant way. She and her Dutch family were incarcerated in a Nazi concentration camp for aiding the Jews. Later, Corrie became a traveling evangelist. After one meeting, where she had talked about the power of forgiveness through Christ, a former guard who had given she and her sister brutal treatment approached her. He thrust his hand out and said, “I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did in that camp, but I would like to hear it from your lips, as well. Fraulein, will you forgive me?”

    Corrie knew she must forgive him, but said, “Still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart. But forgiveness is not an emotion—forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart. ‘Jesus, help me!’ I prayed silently. ‘I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.’ And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in in my shoulder, seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes. ‘I forgive you, brother,’ I cried. ‘With all my heart.’ For a long moment we grasped each others’ hand, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely as I did then.” (Clippings from My Notebook, p. 92) Faith, like forgiveness, is not simply an emotion, but often requires of us a decision to act before the blessings flow.

    Full story go to link: 1. http://www.ldsmag.com/articles/050310faith.html

    #217549
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber13 wrote:

    I think the danger of saying that personal truths are just as valid is that it assumes all people are rational and respectful of others. There are things that others may feel are personal truths to them, but can be wrong and should not be tolerated. This would be if their truth leads them to act in ways that harm others.

    This is an interesting point. I just finished reading “The History of God” by Karen Armstrong, where she discusses the similarities between Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the view of God. Acts stemming from such “personal truth” are not unique to Islam. Chrisitanity had the Crusades. You could also argue that Christianity can claim the murder of the abortion doctor that was killed not long ago. Some would even argue that the Mormon church’s beliefs (and many other Chrisitans) are causing harm to the LGBT community. Fundamental monotheism has often been prone to allowing their “truth” to harm others, at least according to Karen Armstrong, when you look at religion in history.

    #217550
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    Fundamental monotheism has often been prone to allowing their “truth” to harm others

    as has atheism (think the USSR), Buddhism (warrior monks), politicism (BOTH parties in America, for example) and just about every other organized -ism inside or outside religion. As usual, that’s not an excuse for fundamentalist monotheism, but the whole context shows it’s not an exception or even an outlier in the extent of the harm done to others. Mortal institutions nearly always harm mortals not in the organization in real and practical ways – and the larger they get, the more they tend to harm, simply as a function of the size of their extremist deviations. (back to the classic bell curve)

    #217551
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think the principles that endure and stand the test of time are ones most in line with the universal truth God knows through His eternal experience (even God didn’t create the truth…He just knows about it). These universal truths are the shared truths Armstrong sees among all religions…the Golden Rule, unselfish sacrifice, humility and the pursuit of wisdom to better those around you in order to better yourself.

    The crusades were based on a belief … but I do not accept that approach to establishing God’s kingdom on the earth, it was simply mortals not understanding truth, even though they were trying. I do not think those crusades invalidate anything the catholic or christian churches that have survived since then teach today, if those churches have seen that error and corrected the teachings, then they have become more in line with truth, despite their past departure from it.

    Any other religion is the same, including events in mormon history.

    Truth is not dictated by a religion. Religions are established to try to teach truth to the congregations that gather to find the truth. This is why I love Buddhism, second only to Mormonism…I find truth in them and outside them.

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