- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I wrote the following post on my own blog almost a year ago, and I thought of it today as I was reading the posts about dealing with spouses and in-laws and friends and fellow church members who simply don’t understand us and what we want to “teach” them. It deals with anger, directly, but it also applies to frustration and expectations and other similar topics. I hope it helps somehow: Quote:“This month’s resolution has brought one thing into stark relief:
I do very well avoiding and managing anger in most situations. I have known that for a while, but what I have realized more fully this week is that I don’t do such a good job when I am dealing with my children – and especially with my youngest daughter. Actually, I do a good job even then (as I rarely raise my voice without a purpose), but the quickly flaring anger generally is limited to our little twinkie and her older siblings. I wonder why that is.
I try very hard to not impose unrealistic expectations on others – to not judge and to allow for influences beyond my (and often their) control. I generally am very patient with them – and it would be hard to classify me as a hard taskmaster. Yet, on occasion, I find my consternation flaring quickly – and I realized today that it almost always is when I am dealing with something that I have said over and over and over again. That led me to an interesting thought.
I get angry most often when I have failed to ensure that something gets done – when they get caught up in something and don’t finish what has been assigned, and I then don’t follow through and remind them in the moment. I also get angry when my youngest does or says something that I have told her not to do multiple times. There is no maliciousness or contempt in their actions; they simply haven’t completed their assignments – or she hasn’t internalized fully the lesson I am trying to teach her.
That led me to consider the mercy Heavenly Father extends to me as I fail to complete my assignments – how rarely He “yells at me” or “disciplines me” in some other way while I still am internalizing the lessons He is trying to teach me.It also led me to consider the injunction to forgive seventy times seven – a hyperbolic statement that is translated best as “without measure”. Ironically, I do a very good job when I “have cause to be angry”.
The times when I struggle the most are when I am angry “without a (just) cause”.That had not hit me prior to this week, and it has made me think more deeply about how to avoid this as I relate with my kids.” “Anger Without a Cause: Dealing with Children” (
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/08/anger-without-cause-dealing-with.html Very good post Ray. I have a 4 year old, 2 year old, and 8 month old (yes, I know we’re insane). You expressed it perfectly. I get most angry when my kids do, or don’t do something I have repeatedly begged them not do or to do. I try to remember that they still don’t understand the reason I want them to do/not do it. I always try to give context for my directions so as to not appear as though I just want them to be obedience for obedience sake. One question I have for you Ray is how would you know, or what would it be like if God
did/wereyelling at you or disciplining you? It seems to me that I wouldn’t be able to know. Great thought, Ray. In response to jmb’s question (even though he didn’t ask me), I think God’s love and patience is infinite. He would never “yell” at us, or even have anger with us. He sent us here (we are here) to learn. Just as our children learn, make mistakes, don’t listen, deal with the consequences, etc. God just has the wisdom to let us do this on our own so we can internalize and maximize the learning experience.
Obviously, part of this learning curve is being a parent and children need adult supervision/parenting so that is part of the process for those who choose to be parents and works great for children because they need parents.
Sounds super simplified. Maybe that’s okay.
🙄 swimordie wrote:In response to jmb’s question (even though he didn’t ask me), I think God’s love and patience is infinite. He would never “yell” at us, or even have anger with us. He sent us here (we are here) to learn.
I appreciate the response, but you didn’t answer the question. You have said he would never “yell” at us. My question is, how would you know if He did? Has He ever “yelled” at anyone? If not, what does that mean? You seem to have assumed it means “He would never “yell” at us, or even have anger with us.” Is that the only possibility, or even the most likely one? If God has never “yelled” at, or “disciplined” anyone (except through various prophets’ chastisements) even those who have done atrocious things, what does that mean? Joseph claimed to have God chastise him on a few occasions. Have other prophets had such an experience? Is Joseph the only prophet who has made a mistake, or have other prophets just not said anything or what?Sorry, I don’t have an agenda, I just don’t really quite understand how to compare my parenting to God’s parenting of me when I wouldn’t even know how to determine if I screwed up or not.
“how would you know, or what would it be like if God did/were yelling at you or disciplining you?” That is a fascinating question, especially since I think we have two VERY different paradigms in our canonized scripture – and because we tend to extrapolate our own experiences with our parents onto God (both the positive and the negative ones). First, the background:
1) The God of the Old Testament is a yelling, destroying, jealous, vengeful God – the ultimate alpha male. God’s “love” in the OT seems to be more centered on “protection” than on “feeling” – and that makes sense given the history of oppression and conquest of the Israelite and Jewish nations. In short, the God of the OT is the God of “a people” – loving them by actively and directly protecting them in times of obedience and actively and directly punishing them in times of disobedience.
The same description exists in the BofM prior to the Lord’s appearance to the people after his death – a very clear “prosper in the land during righteousness” and “suffer during unrighteousness” distinction. It also exists throughout the D&C – again, during the formative years of the Church when “protection” was paramount.
When protection is the foundational paradigm, it is EASY to see when God is “yelling at you”.
The parenting application is that the same paradigm tends to be in place in our own families – that we yell at our kids when they are in the early developmental stages – when perhaps our primary purpose and goal is to protect them and teach them how to live on their own.
2) The God of the New Testament is a compassionate, meek, merciful, loving, patient, PERSONAL God – the classic man who is in touch with his feminine side – or, interestingly from a Mormon perspective, what normally would be considered a “complete couple” (combination of full masculinity AND femininity). Jesus spoke directly and harshly sometimes, but it was directed almost exclusively to those who were hypocritical leaders who rejected him. The woman taken in adultery (“He who is without sin . . . neither do I condemn thee.”) – the Caananite woman (first classified as a “dog” but then blessed anyway) – the unclean (whom he touched and blessed) – etc. All of these were INDIVIDUALS – and it is clear he came to serve, teach and validate them, not to protect the nation.
The same emphasis can be seen in the post-resurrection visit to the Nephites in the BofM – where “punishment” consisted of walking away and letting people alone (withdrawing), rather than direct, active punishment. I think the same can be seen in the modern Church, where the hyperbolic and harsh pronouncements of the Brigham Youngs of the world generally have disappeared and been replaced by the current apostles who serve, teach and validate much more than scream warnings (and it explains why strong warnings grate so much on so many, since they aren’t used to hearing them on a regular basis).
When service and validation and teaching are the foundational paradigm, it is HARD to see a need to yell very often – if ever.
The parenting application is that the same paradigm tends to be in place in our own families – that we DON’T yell at our kids when they are in the later developmental stages – when perhaps our primary purpose and goal is to pray that we have served and taught them in such a way that they are able to live on their own in a productive manner.
SUMMARY: I think we, as adults, aren’t going to recognize God yelling at us very often – simply because I think he doesn’t yell at us very often. I also think if he does yell at us, we will recognize it – unless we’ve totally stopped trying to listen and completely tuned him out.
If we are trying to be able to recognize whispers (even if the practical application is nothing more than “following our consciences and what we feel is right”), I believe we will hear the shouts.
Finally, as adults, I think we will consider, at the very least, WHY the Church leaders appear to be shouting when they do on rare occasion. (I’m not saying we ultimately have to agree, but I think we should consider the “why” at least and not reflexively brush it off as the rantings of out-of-touch old men. I think that reaction is reminiscent of a childish tantrum, and I think a good indication of one’s spiritual maturity is how s/he reacts to counsel or statements with which s/he disagrees reflexively.)
Interesting discussion. I tend to believe yelling is only done in parenting in 2 situations: 1) Immediate danger requires getting kids attention and actions needed to protect the child from harm when there is no time to explain. Explanations must be given soon after, though. Though traumatic for the kids, there is no guilt when I need to do this to save my child from harm.
2) Anger and frustration from the parent, which is a sign of weakness the emotions can’t be controlled and direction to the child given in a more respectful and constructive way. I do feel guilty when I do this to my kids.
Disciplining a child can be done without yelling, so when it does include yelling I think it only includes yelling in these 2 options described, IMO.
I do not see Heavenly Father possessing weaknesses that would lend him to the 2nd option. I have never seen or read instances where Heavenly Father uses yelling for the 1st option. Even when His Only Begotten was being tortured, He allowed it because it was part of the plan. All things seem to fall under that, and the principle of Agency is the prime directive (to steal from Star Trek). Another example I have often marvelled at is from the story of Alma and Amulek when they had to watch with pain the people of Ammonihah who were thrown into the fire and died but kept their faith (see Alma 14:7–13). How could a loving God let that happen? If there was time to yell, I would think that would be it.
But God lets those things happen. Because this life isn’t the end of our existence or growth.
The pattern that I see Heavenly Father uses is first shown in the Garden of Eden, and I think ever since then.
1) Calls out the offenders…where art thou? Why are you hiding?
2) What have you done?…(Finger point, finger point)…and I did eat.
3) Shows the consequences… because you have done this, you’ll always have weeds in your yard (grrr…
I agree with Ray, that God will withdraw… not stay and yell.
I can’t think of a time when God yelled. He doesn’t need to. The immediate dangers play out in the Eternities, and He doesn’t possess weakness to have to do it otherwise. Something I should consider in my home.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.