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Hi, everyone. I am new to this site, but am a lurker on a few of the blogs of several others on this site (Faithful Dissident, Mormon Heretic). I joined the Mormon church 10 years ago, as a convert from Catholicism. I had a very very spiritual experience that led me, after 4 years of searching, to join this church. I know (even now) that I was led by God to make the decision that I made, at the time. Although I knew that there were some “unsavory” parts of Mormon history, I chose not to delve into them, since my faith was still very tender.
The branch that I was baptized in was about as unorthodox as they get. Women openly nursed their babies in Sacrament meeting, and we had speakers that wove their understanding of Eastern religions (Buddhism, etc.) in with their understanding of Mormon doctrine. My Branch President told me that women hold the priesthood, but it just isn’t recognized on Earth yet. We had several families where the husband was the stay at home parent and the mother worked. Not only were these individuals not judged, the branch president actually sanctioned their decisions. My Sunday School teachers were a married couple who were card-carrying members of the Communist party. I loved it, and it was as if the congregation were formed just for me.
About a year later, I moved away and into a single’s ward. Almost immediately, I encountered extreme Mormon Judgementalism. I was working on a PhD and had men who would hand me copies of the Proclamation on the Family or ask why I hated children (no lie). For the past 9 years, its pretty much been the same way, albeit with some wards being better than others. I eventually married a wonderful, very liberal Mormon man, and we have one child. However, after marriage, many of the judgments that I felt were intensified. Why didn’t we have kids? And after we had kids, When was I going to quit my job? When was the next kid coming?
In an effort to try to extract an understanding of doctrine versus culture, I started a blog (
http://www.myriadmormonmusings.blogspot.com ). I felt (and still feel) that I was inspired to start the blog. I knew that my research into culture versus doctrine issues would likely involve opening the Mormon history “can of worms,” but I sincerely felt that I was ready to make that decision. I guess now that I wasn’t.Like many others on this site, polygamy, racism, and the church’s evolving doctrine were some of the things that tripped me up. However, for me the worst had to be the discovery of the September Six and some of the stories of others who were excommunicated after identifying the “less savory” aspects of the church’s history. And subsequent quotes by church authorities asserting the essential infallibility of the Prophets, the Strengthening Members Committee, as well as an organizational decision to “sugarcoat” the history.
I honestly feel betrayed. The church history that I was taught by the missionaries, and that is found in church handbooks, isn’t
reallythe truth – its the truth with a very strong agenda. I thought that the church I was joining had a prophet who would never lead us astray, but then I realize that once polygamy was required for exaltation, but now its forbidden. Blacks were the spawn of Cain/less righteous in the premortal existence/etc., but now they can hold the priesthood. Polygamy is only called for at specific times/is required for exaltation/is grounds for excommunication. My whole concept of our religion is flipped upside down. The Prophets aren’t who I thought they were. I want (and intend) to stay a member of the church, but I really don’t know how to deal with this disillusionment and betrayal. The church has really become, almost overnight, “just another Christian church,” which is really not what I thought it was. It makes me questions some of the doctrines of the church that go against my conscience (Prop
– are they really inspired, or are the prophet’s speaking from within the culture they are in? I am going to stay a member, but I have just felt like my whole paradigm of the church is crumbling around my feet. I will never look at a Sunday School lesson or General Conference talk the same way again. I have other issues as well, but this Intro is probably long enough. Has anyone else experienced this sense of betrayal? If so, how do you deal with it?
Thanks for reading,
Kate.
First, welcome. I hope this forum helps in whatever way you need. I don’t have time right now for a full answer, but I would suggest strongly that you go back through past posts and read the discussions we have had. Many of them deal explicitly with your question of feeling betrayed.
It sounds like my posts were a little too provocative for you. While I agree with you on racism and polygamy, I guess I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are other things I love: 3 degrees of glory, Book of Mormon, temple work, etc. So, don’t forget what attracted you first to Mormonism–I think those are probably still valid. We’re told not to put trust in the arm of flesh. When our testimony is rooted more in fallible prophets than in Christ, then I think we are trusting in the arm of flesh. So, I guess I’m trying to say that it’s ok to have problems with polygamy, or racism (the arm of flesh), but the real focus should be on Christ, and becoming more like him (charity, love, service, etc).
Welcome. I’m glad you’re here and look forward to reading your thoughts. I think everyone here is pretty supportive, yet I can sense different angles, and levels, of ideas and beliefs – which is good for me. I don’t feel people come to this site to [moderated] or establish their ego with knowledge and controversy. Simply an open place to vent and voice your thoughts, and I have never felt anything but support from doing so. It has been very good for me. I have felt the disillusionment you expressed. My difference is I was born in the church. Even when I was trying to be open minded to read things about Joseph Smith and withhold judgment in fear of lies and slander of anti-mormon agendas, I eventually realized there is a lot of stuff that just doesn’t make sense and there is too much evidence to ignore it. Makes you think about a lot of things. Made me doubt a lot of things.
Have you read John’s essay and also the summary of Fowler’s Stages on faith? I found those very interesting.
For me, I have been able to come back and accept that a lot of things are not what they seem in the church, yet I feel so good about bringing my family there every week. I feel good about believing in God and about finding joy at home with my family. I think I really like lots of things about the church, and embrace those. I think my eyes have been opened to other things, but most of those are not central to the current church and the good my family can benefit from it. I have enjoyed intellectual exercises by debating things on this site and with friends, but I feel no need to take up an agenda to convince anyone else of anything I have come to accept. I just take the good, and leave the rest.
The good thing about the church is it is all voluntary. Take what you want, leave the rest. Do others judge me at church? Probably. But I don’t get involved in that. I have focused my testimony on Christ, less on church principles.
I have gotten to a point where I have some opinions about polygamy and Joseph Smith, and am not afraid to learn more. They don’t need to impact my current life or feelings of the church. I don’t have a problem with what the church did for Prop 8, but would love to hear your thoughts on it. I don’t feel I’ve become more shallow in my testimony of the church, I feel I have opened myself up to a new direction and become more deeply devoted to the love of Christ and others, which includes all the great people in my ward. I still have a ways to go to make sense of my current trials, but at least I’m not freaking out about them anymore.
I have studied a lot about faith recently. I honestly believe faith is exactly what you need to stay in the church and be a sincere, honest, loving person. Faith is critical, but not easy to understand, and it multi-leveled. The faith you had to join the church is not the same faith you need to sustain you in the church. There is no cookie-cutter mormon faith, despite what TBMs try to make others feel like. My opinion, for what its worth.
Welcome to the forum. You’re among friends.
mormonheretic wrote:
We’re told not to put trust in the arm of flesh. When our testimony is rooted more in fallible prophets than in Christ, then I think we are trusting in the arm of flesh. So, I guess I’m trying to say that it’s ok to have problems with polygamy, or racism (the arm of flesh), but the real focus should be on Christ, and becoming more like him (charity, love, service, etc).This is the most amazing transformation that can come from this journey. We have the opportunity to mature spiritually. I admit that I always just “followed the prophet.” Well, that is a lot easier than cultivating our own relationship with God.
So, yes, when the rug first gets pulled out from under you it is disappointing. That is normal. You will mourn a loss that is real. However, out of the ashes can grow a better, stronger testimony than ever imagined! It won’t be a testimony of earthly/non-eternal things.
Go slow. Let the Spirit guide you. Find your own path by asking Father. Be patient. And when you start freaking out, just post here. Works for me.
Oh, and I’ve totally read your blog before!
Hang in there. This is part of the spiritual maturation process, IMHO. Ray has often said that the church was called “true and living,” not just “true” for a reason. Living implies it’s human, fallible, and changing. It implies that it’s an earthly connection to God, and God has to work through imperfect mortals, including all of us. Revelation is received by humans who ask questions from their own perspectives and accept answers through the filters of their own understanding. And that includes all of us, too. We imagine that the revelations of others are so much more clear, more obvious, more unmistakable than our own, but what if they are not? What if they are only as good as the requester? What if they are filtered through cultural lenses and biases that we (or leaders) don’t even know we (or they) have? Welcome! Great intro. I have felt and experienced many of the same things as you.
kedmondson wrote:Has anyone else experienced this sense of betrayal? If so, how do you deal with it?
Yes. I deal with it one day at a time.It is an ongoing process wherein I force myself to focus on the good and ignore the bad. When I feel overwhelmed I pull back a bit. Today, for example I did not attend, and I had a wonderful day! However, I feel the church still has a place in my life since I am married to a TBM and have children that are being raised in the gospel.
Hang in there. I hope this forum helps… you are among friends here.
BTW, what ward were you baptized into? I think I would like to retire there.
@kedmondson Let me just say that I have been, and in some ways still am in your position. We have a lot in common. I have felt the sting of betrayal, been angry, and overcome it. I have felt the judgmental attitude and despised it. I have felt that we have been led astray by prophets, and am still not convinced otherwise. Nevertheless, I remain LDS. I don’t remain because I think the LDS church is the one and only true church on earth.
Heber13 wrote:Take what you want, leave the rest. Do others judge me at church? Probably. But I don’t get involved in that. I have focused my testimony on Christ, less on church principles.
Absolutely brilliant. Well said Heber.Thank you, everyone, for your kind welcomes. I truly appreciate it. Its nice not to feel so alone. I had a nice talk with my bishop yesterday. I was debating whether I should discuss my problems with him, but ultimately decided in favor of it since he (like me) is an academic, and I thought perhaps he could understand my concerns. He gave me some counsel that really wasn’t what I expected from a church leader. He told me: 1) to keep reading and studying church history from all sources, encouraging me in my academic pursuits of truth and not to “hide under a rock and hope it all goes away,” and 2) to basically treat anything I hear in general conference or elsewhere that is not specifically marked as a commandment as “very good advice to the general membership of the church” that I should feel free to accept or not based on my own family and circumstances, and to ignore the nay sayers in the ward. He also gave me a great piece of advice that I should make sure that I balance my academic readings with “spiritual nourishment” – whether from church, the temple, FHE, scripture reading, prayer, whatever – so that I didn’t feel so conflicted. The thought being that as I invited the spirit into my life, I could better discern between what matters and what doesn’t.
I am not sure whether this sort of advice is helpful for all, but it did really help me. It didn’t fix all of my issues, by any means, but it was nice to get someone else’s input. My husband hears my problems with things all the time, and although he is wonderfully understanding, I don’t think he entirely “gets it”. It was also nice to feel validated in my “intellectual” pursuits of truth.
Having had more time to think over these things, I agree with everyone who has said that this is a natural progression of faith – albeit a painful and challenging one!
Heber13 – I’ve read John’s post, but am unfamiliar with Fowler’s stages of faith. After I read your post, I looked at them briefly, but I realize I need to give them more than a cursory glance
just me – Wow, you took the words right out of my mouth with the “grieving” analogy. That is absolutely what it feels like. Its like finding out your mom and dad aren’t perfect, and that you will just have to figure things out on your own after all. Necessary, but earth shattering.
asha – It was the Cornell Student Branch, in Ithaca, NY. There is no single’s ward up there (too few members), so it was a combined ward with all single and married members with kids under the age of 5. We had divorcees, single moms, the whole gamut, with minimal judging and cliques. I’m not sure what that branch is like now, but 10 years ago it was really, really a special place to be.
Thanks again, everyone. It means a lot to me.
kedmondson wrote:I had a nice talk with my bishop yesterday. I was debating whether I should discuss my problems with him, but ultimately decided in favor of it since he (like me) is an academic, and I thought perhaps he could understand my concerns. He gave me some counsel that really wasn’t what I expected from a church leader. He told me: 1) to keep reading and studying church history from all sources, encouraging me in my academic pursuits of truth and not to “hide under a rock and hope it all goes away,” and 2) to basically treat anything I hear in general conference or elsewhere that is not specifically marked as a commandment as “very good advice to the general membership of the church” that I should feel free to accept or not based on my own family and circumstances, and to ignore the nay sayers in the ward. He also gave me a great piece of advice that I should make sure that I balance my academic readings with “spiritual nourishment” – whether from church, the temple, FHE, scripture reading, prayer, whatever – so that I didn’t feel so conflicted. The thought being that as I invited the spirit into my life, I could better discern between what matters and what doesn’t.
Wow… you have an awesome Bishop. He sounds like he is mature and probably very aware of these issues. I would not be surprised if he has also traveled down this path.
I’ll just say I have a huge man-crush on your Bishop! 🙄 Your bishop rocks! I have met other leaders like that in the church, and obviously, his advice is pretty consistent with what you will hear here. There aren’t that many Stage 5s at church, but the ones who are do a tremendous service to the church, IMO, even moreso when they are in leadership roles and able to advise in these types of situations. My Bishop is a good man, I’m glad I made the decision to talk to him. Like I said, I was conflicted over meeting with him – while on the one hand, I felt like I should; on the other, I didn’t really know what I was looking for or what he could say that would help me to feel at peace. I think he said just the right thing. He’s quite young, about my own age – maybe 30 or 32 – and is in academia, so I would not be surprised if he has gone through some of these same issues. I would not hesitate with talking to him again (and he asked that I do so). Your bishop sounds like he really gets it. There is no need to fear that because you’re having doubts you should be called to repentance until you don’t have doubts anymore. The church should be a church of acceptance and love and encouragement, not a church of fear. I like your bishop’s advice to balance your reading with church sources. I think that’s important. He sounds like he generally cares about you, the way Christ would…not cares more about his position as bishop and proving to you he is right or the church is right.
I just wanted to thank everyone on here again for their helpful words, and provide an update. I have finally made peace with my situation and the church. However, in order to do this, I had to make a decision that I didn’t think would ever be possible for me: I am resigning my temple recommend. I realized that, ultimately, I do not have a testimony of the Restoration, at least not as I understand it to be taught. I don’t believe the LDS church to have the only authority on the earth, based on my historical studies. And I do not believe the prophets to be “prophets” in the sense of “prophets for the entire earth”. I do believe that they receive insight and revelation for the flock of the church, albeit in a very similar manner to how I receive revelation. Admitting this to myself – that I was unable or unwilling to go through the mental hoops of apologetics any longer – was amazingly freeing for me. I no longer have to accept everything the church says or does as “ultimate truth,” but I am free to live by my internal moral compass which, so far, has only led me to happiness in this life. It frees me to supplement my faith from Eastern religions or other sources that bring me closer to Deity. And it allows me to stay LDS on my terms.
I am so happy. I am so content. I like and accept the church for the goodness it has and for how it aligns with some of my value system, and that is sufficient for me. I no longer have to feel guilty or at risk of eternal perdition anytime I question the prophet, or make decisions that are contrary to teachings of the church. I am a little sad that I will no longer be able to attend the temple – although I personally no longer view it as required for salvation, it was a religious ritual that was peaceful for me. However, this is such a small thing compared to the peace and insight I have gained.
Thanks, everyone, for all of your help. Now that I have let go of my anger, I think I am more ready for this board.
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