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June 29, 2009 at 11:33 pm #204083
Anonymous
GuestI need some support on something I’ve been wondering about. Some things in my recent studies that really resonate with me are how personal faith is, and that things aren’t always “black and white” or “cut and dry” – that while I believe there are universal truths out there…our experience or perceptions of what they mean to each of us individually is uniquely personal. From this, I am able to accept that what you think is right for you is great, but I may have a different opinion, and we may both be just as right, therefore I make no judgments on what others think and respect them for what they honestly believe, even if I disagree. But I wonder then about my motives and my sincerity… am I really always being honest with others? I thought of this the other day when my 6-yr old sneezed in the back seat of the car while driving home from baseball. Then he asked me, “Dad, aren’t you gonna say bless you?” I thought to myself, why do people say bless you…is it because in the dark ages the churches taught people it allowed evil spirits to enter the body, so you need to say “bless you” to help protect against evil? If so, that is non-sense, I don’t believe it, therefore I don’t ever need to say bless you. On the other hand, if it is thought of as being curtious to the “sneezor” – why don’t I just say “bless you” to be polite because it means something to them, even if I don’t believe there is any meaning to saying “bless you”?
Let me try to explain further with a hypothetical situation…
A family I home teach believes their house is haunted. Many strange things have happened from their perspective (boxes moving, strange noises, shadows, etc). While visiting them, they tell me they hear the strange noises again. I don’t hear anything, and while not demeaning them or calling them nuts-o…I don’t believe there is anything in their house and their stories sound pretty strange to me. I honestly allow them to think what they want without passing judgment and realize they could be right, but I don’t really believe their place is “haunted”. Ok, so then they take it to me directly, and say that as a priesthood holder, they would like me to bless and dedicate their home against the evil spirits that are there.
Here is a similar dilemna from the sneezing example. I don’t believe I need to exercise the priesthood, just like I don’t need to say “bless you” when someone sneezes. But I do feel I should be polite and when someone asks me, I should do it for their benefit.
But how do I perform a priesthood blessing if in my mind I don’t really have faith in what I’m saying, I just am saying it to be nice? Is that ok or is that duplicitous on my part? I’m sure I could just do a blessing and be vague about it, but I still wonder if that is right to do or not. Maybe these 2 examples aren’t the best, but the idea is I wonder what things I do just to be nice when I really don’t believe in it and wonder how important it is to refuse to do something I don’t believe in, or just do it to be nice for others and in my head rationalize it as it just doesn’t matter anyway.
Any thoughts or advice? Is it a big deal?
June 30, 2009 at 12:32 am #218413Anonymous
GuestMy opinion? You are over-analyzing the “Bless you” situation. Go ahead and say, “Bless you” – and imbue it with your own meaning of, “I’m being polite, so I’m saying what you expect to hear.” No big deal.
As to the haunted house, I would tell them I don’t feel comfortable blessing a house against evil spirits when I’m not sure that’s the issue. I would immediately tell them that I would be glad to find someone who will do it for them, and that I appreciate the request deeply, but that I just can’t do it myself. If they get offended, that’s their problem – and I have Elder Bednar to back me up on that.
June 30, 2009 at 12:38 am #218414Anonymous
GuestI will tell you how I view it and you can take it for what its worth. If I understand, you are less concerned with showing them that there may be another explanation, but are interested in whether or not you should play along from an ethical standpoint. Let me suggest there are parallels here to your own life. Imagine how a disaffected Mormon who doesn’t believe the story anymore feels when he goes to church. The DAMU recognizes there may be another explanation, and thinks believers might see things differently if they were privy to some better explanations, similar to how you view your family you HT. What does the DAMU do? Play along, or try to tell everyone? I think the situation is very similar. The big difference is that you find “haunting” to be less likely but don’t find your belief system to be so. Can you prove your religion true, or that God exists? No. Can someone prove it isn’t true, or that God doesn’t exist? No. And neither can your family prove the house is haunted, nor can you prove it’s not. I think much of this may be rooted in how each person evaluates various forms of “evidence.” But I digress.
Now to answer your question. I do the same thing when I give a priesthood blessing for healing. I don’t think it likely that my giving a blessing will actually heal anyone (incidentally, I would love to see a controlled scientific study done in this regard). But I don’t give the blessing with that intent. I give the blessing because it helps to comfort the individual. If any healing occurs as a result of the blessing, I suspect it would be due to the psychological, and physical affects of receiving this comfort, and whatnot. Should I feel it is ethically wrong for me to do such a thing? I don’t think so. We do things to help other people. If it helps people, that is worth something.
Let me ask a question. If you sincerely give the blessing, whether you believe the house is haunted or not, and the family concludes that the blessing “worked,” what does that mean? Was the house really haunted? Probably not, but nevertheless you have helped the family! You have served Christ by doing what is important for the family, not what is important for you.
June 30, 2009 at 12:45 am #218415Anonymous
GuestDo THEY believe there are bad spirits in their home? Then the priesthood can be exercised in their behalf. I have felt a dark presence on occasion. I asked my DH to rededicate the house. It was for me. It was at the beginning of this spiritual journey I am on, so it makes sense to me that I felt The Spirit and a dark spirit more frequently than ever. I’m the only one in the house who sensed it, ya know? It was still real to me.
Even if this is an internal phenomenon, it is true and real. Don’t get too caught up in “reality.” You are right, their reality is probably a bit different from yours and that’s okay.
When you bless their home against “evil spirits” those spirits could take many forms. Could be internal stress, mental overload, spiritual need, lack of faith, fear or whatever. The words are just symbols.
The biggest thing is that they need peace. They need to be released from their fear because fear is not from God. Allow yourself to be guided by the Spirit so you can say the words that will bring them peace. You’re a good man!
June 30, 2009 at 12:47 am #218416Anonymous
GuestBtw, to follow up on jmb’s post, when I give a Priesthood blessing I go into it expecting to give comfort – NOT healing or anything profound. I try to be open to whatever might come out of my mouth, but I don’t intend to perform miracles. Call it what you will, but I have found that doing so “works” or is “successful” 100% of the time – since I am open to those times where the Lord chooses to speak through me. Of the hundreds of blessings I have given, there have been hundreds that offered comfort and counsel, a dozen or so that mentioned healing that might or might not have been remarkable and three that have blown me away as I thought afterward about what came out of my mouth. It was worth giving comfort in the hundreds just for the comfort’s sake – but it absolutely was worth it to have those three experiences.
I think life is like that in a lot of ways.
June 30, 2009 at 12:48 am #218417Anonymous
GuestI’ve changed my mind. I would bless the house. Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the comments.
June 30, 2009 at 3:00 am #218418Anonymous
Guestjust me wrote:The biggest thing is that they need peace. They need to be released from their fear because fear is not from God…You’re a good man!
Very well said just me. Fear is not from God and it controls way too much in our lives.June 30, 2009 at 3:50 pm #218419Anonymous
Guestjmb275 wrote:Imagine how a disaffected Mormon who doesn’t believe the story anymore feels when he goes to church. The DAMU recognizes there may be another explanation, and thinks believers might see things differently if they were privy to some better explanations, similar to how you view your family you HT.
You’ve picked up on where I’m going with this.
jmb275 wrote:I don’t think it likely that my giving a blessing will actually heal anyone (incidentally, I would love to see a controlled scientific study done in this regard). But I don’t give the blessing with that intent. I give the blessing because it helps to comfort the individual. If any healing occurs as a result of the blessing, I suspect it would be due to the psychological, and physical affects of receiving this comfort, and whatnot.
I think this gets to the root of my inward struggle, I feel uncomfortable doing a blessing under false pretense (not to say you are doing this, only that is what I fear for myself). Previously, I had faith the priesthood power was literally going to call down the power of God. I now still believe that can happen, but a little less mystical and a little more symbolic, more along the lines of what just me said:
just me wrote:Even if this is an internal phenomenon, it is true and real. Don’t get too caught up in “reality.” You are right, their reality is probably a bit different from yours and that’s okay.
When you bless their home against “evil spirits” those spirits could take many forms. Could be internal stress, mental overload, spiritual need, lack of faith, fear or whatever. The words are just symbols.
That’s very profound. Opening my mind to the “many forms” of spiritual experiences is what I’m trying to get used to, instead of my prior belief that was so literal, that there was only one real explanation of it all. “One explanation” of things is what I’m finding can’t hold up or stand the test of time. Symbolism, parables, and that unique and personal perspective on the universal truths out there is what requires faith in providing us peace and comfort in the mysterious things of this life that can’t be proven scientifically, because they are not bound by time, space, or terrestrial matter.
So there is still value in doing things like priesthood blessings. I am now just trying to adjust my faith on how I believe God’s love can influence others, so I want to get that right in my head before I’m asked to do something, and I can still be pure in heart while doing it.
Ray wrote:Of the hundreds of blessings I have given, there have been hundreds that offered comfort and counsel, a dozen or so that mentioned healing that might or might not have been remarkable and three that have blown me away as I thought afterward about what came out of my mouth.
I think Ray’s experiences are about the right proportion of how things are likely to happen, and I do believe the amazing can happen on rare occasions, and I don’t doubt my prior experiences where I’ve felt guided to say certain things that were just as amazing to me as they were to the recipient, and have strengthened my testimony that there are unseen forces out there that I don’t fully understand, but they are there.
Thanks everyone for your responses. I try not to “over-analyze” things, and the sneezing was just to demonstrate the principle, but I can get myself caught up in the principle of the matter sometimes too deeply and need to step back and keep things in perspective. Your responses have given me a better perspective and there is much for me to ponder. Thanks.
June 30, 2009 at 8:40 pm #218420Anonymous
GuestQuote:A family I home teach believes their house is haunted. Many strange things have happened from their perspective (boxes moving, strange noises, shadows, etc). While visiting them, they tell me they hear the strange noises again. I don’t hear anything, and while not demeaning them or calling them nuts-o…I don’t believe there is anything in their house and their stories sound pretty strange to me. I honestly allow them to think what they want without passing judgment and realize they could be right, but I don’t really believe their place is “haunted”. Ok, so then they take it to me directly, and say that as a priesthood holder, they would like me to bless and dedicate their home against the evil spirits that are there.
My DH and I also think we must have a poltergeist because every day when we get home from work, no matter how nicely we left the place, every drawer and cupboard door in the kitchen are open. (JK – it’s our 11 year old).
I like the idea of thinking of “everything being holy” and respecting the holiness of the requester, especially if I’m on their turf. I agree that I wouldn’t put on a show or pretend to play along, but you can bless them and their home in that spirit (rather than an exorcism you don’t believe in). I was at Montezuma’s Well a year or so ago, and there was a Native American woman there who explained that it was a healing place, and that we needed to give an offering to Mother Earth in gratitude. She gave me part of a cigarette to crumble and throw (Mother Earth is apparently a smoker), and I certainly felt it was respectful to comply. It’s a site that is sacred to her, therefore, it’s appropriate to behave in accordance with her faith. People’s faith is what sanctifies things.
June 30, 2009 at 11:00 pm #218421Anonymous
GuestThis thread has been more insightful, enlightening, instructive, and faith-promoting than all of the EQ lessons I’ve heard in the last ten years combined. (I guess that was a back-handed complement but it was meant to be a sincere “Thank you” to everyone) July 6, 2009 at 9:49 pm #218422Anonymous
GuestI went through something similar when I volunteered for young women’s camp a few weeks ago to be the “priesthood staff” for a couple days. I had no idea how many blessings I was going to get involved with. It actually turned out to be a very nice experience — faith promoting in a StayLDS kind of way. I’ll be blunt. Most of the blessings were for nothing. There wasn’t anything seriously wrong with the people. They had a mildly sore throat from screaming and laughing all night or were scared from seeing a snake. It was REALLY awkward for me at first. But then I was blessed with seeing how it was just a nice spiritual experience for everyone. I wasn’t raising the dead or curing lepers in any grandiose Cecil B. DeMille epic drama kind of way. What I am getting at is their faith was producing their own experience.
If someone thinks their house is haunted, I don’t mind blessing the house for them. It could just be psychological problems they are having. But think about it, wouldn’t the blessing be well-matched for that? If they believe in their house being blessed, and it makes them feel better, that’s ok. It doesn’t matter if ghosts really exist or not. They feel better. It could be God and evil spirits too. I don’t know. The main thing is providing love and compassionate service to someone.
July 7, 2009 at 7:51 am #218423Anonymous
GuestThanks Valoel. That seems to be the general direction from the group…if the family THINKS they need a blessing, then that is what will help them.
Doesn’t that say something about all mormons who THINK they belong to the true church (jmb275 picked up on this with his comments about disillusioned LDS or non-LDS)? Or what about if God really “hears” our prayers, or is it just for our sakes mentally so we have a good spiritual experience?
I guess I am still a little uncomfortable, feeling like I still believe God exists and periodically “enlightens” a prophet to restore truth so we can start a church to teach true Christ teachings…but on a daily basis, how much of it is really haunted hauses and scary snakes that we seek comfort from, when really we need to just look at real life with less paranormal explanations and more symbolism for meaning and direction.
When you know the real Santa story, you still go along with it so you don’t ruin it for others, but its never the same anymore. I am trying to come to accept that and still fulfill my priesthood responsibilities by viewing these blessings as a way to serve others…but I hope I can still be honest in heart while doing it.
July 7, 2009 at 12:27 pm #218424Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:I guess I am still a little uncomfortable, feeling like I still believe God exists and periodically “enlightens” a prophet to restore truth so we can start a church to teach true Christ teachings…but on a daily basis, how much of it is really haunted hauses and scary snakes that we seek comfort from, when really we need to just look at real life with less paranormal explanations and more symbolism for meaning and direction.
I have mostly come back around to believing that God really does enlighten prophets, which prompts them to restore/reveal/highlight important truths to the people in the context of their time. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I just have a much more nuanced, natural and realistic view on what makes a “prophet” and the “truth.” To me, the absolute truths are transcendent and mostly beyond our grasp while in this existence. So it isn’t that disturbing to me anymore when I find the details of the Santa Claus story changing or needing adjustment. The basics remain the same. The basic lessons from the play of life and existence are constant. The actors and characters change. The scenery and props change. The meaning of the story pretty much stays the same. There’s a beautiful light out there calling to us, drawing us toward it. It is good, and we call this God.
I have priesthood power/authority to bless people because I believe it and they believe it. It’s all very real on the spiritual level. It may or may not be as real on the tangible/intellectual level.
July 7, 2009 at 7:19 pm #218425Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:when really we need to just look at real life with less paranormal explanations and more symbolism for meaning and direction.
I think Valoel really has a good handle on it, and I like his post. I also like what you are saying here, Heber13.
For me, though the reality of Heaven and the Highest is larger than physical life, it really is important to look at life with less magical explanations and more symbolism and personal responsibility. In that way, I am a humanist, even as I repeat my maxim, “There is more going on around us than meets the eye.”
Tom
July 7, 2009 at 7:50 pm #218426Anonymous
GuestValoel said: Quote:I have mostly come back around to believing that God really does enlighten prophets, which prompts them to restore/reveal/highlight important truths to the people in the context of their time. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I just have a much more nuanced, natural and realistic view on what makes a “prophet” and the “truth.”
I agree with this sentiment, and I would add that my view of prophets and scripture has become more nuanced than Joseph Smith’s was as well.
Quote:To me, the absolute truths are transcendent and mostly beyond our grasp while in this existence.
Totally agree. Joseph Campbell said that the most important truths cannot be fathomed, the next most important cannot be expressed, and the third most important can only be poorly communicated. It is on the 3rd group that all religion is based.
Quote:So it isn’t that disturbing to me anymore when I find the details of the Santa Claus story changing or needing adjustment. The basics remain the same. The basic lessons from the play of life and existence are constant. The actors and characters change. The scenery and props change. The meaning of the story pretty much stays the same. There’s a beautiful light out there calling to us, drawing us toward it. It is good, and we call this God.
The underlying premise of the change to the Santa story is particularly relevant. Instead of some kindly stranger with magical powers and unlimited resources (and er, slave labor force of elves), we discover that it is our parents who know and love us who are serving us and coddling us, and doing so without any recognition so they can make the experience a more magical one for us. The myth shifts to make things more personal (based on a real relationship with real people) and to also light the path for our own responsibility toward our children in the future. The truth transcends the myth by replacing the magical elements with charitable ones and with personal growth.
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