Home Page Forums General Discussion Dealing with the Cultural Aspects of Religion

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  • #204084
    Anonymous
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    My biggest concern whenever people discuss culture and religion is that it is almost impossible to have a dispassionate discussion of the central issues that cause contention in the first place – because culture is so tied up in individual perceptions of value and self-worth and community. I really like the “culture as a coat” metaphor, but it is very hard for most people to shed a coat when they feel cold or in need of protection. In other words, people feel naked (or even not themselves) when you remove them from their culture (take away their covering/protecting coat), so they cling to that culture passionately – and often irrationally.

    I was raised in rural, central Utah; served a mission in Japan; attended college in Massachusetts, with many friends and acquaintances from other countries around the world; taught high school in southern Alabama; lived in Ohio for the past 12 years; now live in Missouri. I have worked extensively in the rural Midwest and in the eastern inner-cities. I have been exposed to many cultures, both societal and religious. The one thing I have learned from this experience that is most relevant to this post is that is it next to impossible in an “open” (non-controlled) group setting to discuss cultural differences and concerns and not be labeled a bigot or homophobic or a hatemonger, no matter how carefully and narrowly you attempt to do so – specifically because the natural (wo)man feels attacked personally whenever “criticism” (critical analysis) is directed to culture.

    One example from my occupational history: Just over 10 years ago, the Ohio legislature decided to enforce a mandate that all 4th Grade students demonstrate reading proficiency before being advanced to 5th Grade. The vast majority of politicians and citizens saw this as a simple attempt to make sure that students were being taught as they deserved to be taught – of holding the educational systems in the state accountable for their performance. However, there was a good-sized minority that saw it as a direct racial attack, since the districts that would have been impacted the most severely were the inner-city districts – and black students would have been affected disproportionately. This group felt that it was racist to punish the students for what they perceived as the historical inability of the system to provide them the same quality education that the predominantly white, suburban districts were providing their students. The issue became so contentious that it disappeared completely within one year.

    My point is not what most might assume. Honestly, as someone who was knee deep in the issue, I could understand both arguments. There was a degree of validity to each. I believed that there were a number of options that could have addressed both sides’ concerns – that could have brought about an acceptable compromise. It didn’t happen for one reason and one reason alone. Each side took a defensive posture to thwart an attack against its culture and educational perspective – so both sides lost in the end.

    I think it failed because of the simple natural man issue – one group feeling attacked and the other group dismissing that feeling as ridiculous simply because they didn’t intend their actions to be an attack. In that sense, there was incorrect evaluation going on in each camp. However, each group felt the other was being insensitive and dismissive – and they were correct in that regard to a degree.

    What would have happened ideally? I don’t think the “ideal” was possible, and I don’t want to get into that. I also don’t want to turn this into a political discussion of educational funding and administration, so I can’t answer that here in practical terms. However, conceptually, all it would have taken would have been leaders of each group who were willing to set aside cultural differences, really listen to each other in order to understand and look at the central issues from strictly an educational perspective – to quit making accusations about motivation and simply work out the practical issues. The solution might not have been ideal, but it would have been much better than what happened – which in the end was nothing. I wish they would have spent less time trying to convince the other side they were correct and more time simply trying to understand the valid aspects of the other’s perspective. If they had done that, the outcome might not have changed, but at least nobody would have walked away mad; there would have been a level of racial and cultural understanding that had not existed previously – and still doesn’t exist nearly 10 years later. That would have been a wonderful accomplishment.

    I believe there is a deep and profound Gospel principle in that example for those who have eyes to see – and I also believe it will be instructive on a personal level to see if each reader immediately identifies someone else as the party that needs to listen and understand more quickly than s/he sees that need in her/himself.

    #218438
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This is exactly what made me so sad about the SSM debate in Arizona: there was no debate.

    I call this sad part of human nature partisanship. We see our party as white, and the other party as black. Then we find out that our own party is pretty despicable at times, and the other party has some good ideas. Covey would tell us not to say, “You nincompoop! Why can’t you understand?” but rather, “If a person of your intelligence and competence and commitment has a point of view that I disagree with, there must be something about our disagreement I don’t understand. And I need to understand it.” Many great teachers would remind us that you can be right and totally wrong at the same time, which is what we see too often in apologetics and polemics.

    That’s why I like StayLDS.com, Mormon Matters, and Wikipedia. With Wikipedia being the extreme example, all bring together diverse people and perspectives into a community of respectful and loving serious dialogue and work. It is a good reminder to me to keep respecting and keep listening.

    Tom

    #218439
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Some very good points, and important things to ponder! It’s always easier to see the other side as the one with the biggest flaws.

    More and more I’m seeing maturity working closely with humility (I may not know as much as I think I know) — and what I once saw as doctrine I now realize may simply be culture.

    Thanks for that.

    #218440
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Old-Timer wrote:

    I wish they would have spent less time trying to convince the other side they were correct and more time simply trying to understand the valid aspects of the other’s perspective.

    Can this be done by one side only, despite what the other side does, or is the best solution of understanding each other require both sides to be open minded?

    I wonder about this sometimes with married couples. No matter how understanding and loving and equitable one spouse tries to be, if the other is selfish and takes advantage of the other to gain their needs, can a solution ever be found by just one side?

    Tom mentioned Covey, who would say that some times a win-win is to walk away from the deal, because one side or the other is not willing to find a solution that is the best for both groups. And in those situations, you have to at least dig your heels in to make sure the other side isn’t going to take advantage of you, despite how they characterize you justly or not.

    #218441
    Anonymous
    Guest

    That is an excellent point, Heber. There almost always is a gap between the ideal and the practical – and navigating that gap is one of the core principles of the Gospel.

    Yes, it takes two to tango – and it takes two to wrangle. Sometimes, walking away really is the best final step, but I wonder what would have happened if one side simply had refused to wrangle – but also refused to leave and let it drop (at least until it simply was unavoidable). I wonder what a patient, loving, non-defensive, non-offensive approach would have done in that situation.

    Also, I wonder how many people (including myself) realize how trivial the subjects of most arguments and fights (and anxiety and cognitive dissonance) really are from an eternal presepctive – and how much of what we consider eternal Truth really is mortal culture. There are some things that absolutely are not trivial, and somethings that certainly are eternal truths, but I’d be willing to bet that 95% are FAR less critical in the long run than we assume.

    I have found GREAT peace in that conclusion – and it has saved me from untold heartburn over the years. Ironically, it hasn’t diminshed my testimony of the Gospel (as I see it) one bit – and it actually has strengthened my love of Mormon theology and what I see as the “heart” of the Restoration. I understand the irnoy of that statement for those still wrapped up in the pain and struggle of a crisis, but stepping outside of mortality and viewing things from an eternal persepctive is exhilarating – even if I truly still do see through my glass, darkly.

    #218442
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This is a wonderful topic/thread and obviously something I’m still learning/re-learning.

    I also agree that if both parties could consider each other dispassionately, clear progress could almost always be made.

    However….. ;) ;) , hasn’t there been times in history when huge important shifts have been accomplished by the “fight”? American Revolution, American Civil War, South African civil uprising, Czech student revolt, etc. Would positive progress eventually have been made by continued dialogue and interaction? Maybe, but at what cost? More lives ruined/wasted, less human progress both socially and specially, less individual agency, etc.

    And, I’m not saying this to provoke ire, but aren’t most of those “disagreements” between cultures, or that are culturally based, essentially bigoted ideas, either on one side or both? Were both sides right in the Civil War? South African apartheid? Segregation? Miscegenation?

    I recognize that I’m using huge historic precedents for a much more complex concept, but there are issues out there hurting real people in real ways for what appears to be irrational reasons. Are there exceptions to your thesis and, if so, how to deal with those?

    #218443
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Here is an early christian opinion:

    Celsus was a respected pagan scholar. In 173 AD he criticized Christians for their refusal to defend the Empire.

    Quote:

    If all men were to do as you there would be nothing to prevent the Emperor from being left in utter solitude, and with the desertion of his forces, the Empire would fall into the hands of the most lawless barbarians.

    Origen gave the Christian response:

    Quote:

    Christians have been taught not to defend themselves against their enemies; and because they have kept the laws that command gentleness and love of man, they have received from God that which they would not have achieved if they were permitted to make war, though they might have been quite able to do so.

    But he also explained that the peaceful Christian did more good for the Emperor than his armies did.

    Quote:

    The more devout the individual, the more effective he is in helping the Emperor, more so than the soldiers who go into the lines and kill all the enemy troops they can … The greatest warfare, in other words, is not with human enemies but with those spiritual forces which make men into enemies.

    #218444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This is a wonderful topic. I really appreciate your thoughts on this Ray. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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