Not the strip club thing again.

Honestly, he’s giving you an incredibly immature response. Strip clubs have NOTHING to do with the things you mentioned.

“Seems like a quick shot of guilt thrown at me.”

It is – and my immediate reaction is that he probably learned it, verbatim, from someone else. It’s a defensive, reflex mechanism that shifts blame and doesn’t require that he actively examine and change his own behavior. It’s a protection response, but it’s incredibly damaging.

Having said that, there are only three things you can do:

1) Ignore it.

2) Tell him directly and bluntly that you would never do anything like going to a strip club and that you don’t appreciate the implication that you are being unfaithful to him. If he argues, walk out the door, do something you want to do for a couple of hours then come back and see how he reacts. If he’s contrite and willing to talk, wondeful; if he accosts you in some way when you return, the issue is far deeper and more complex than your actions and his comparison. In that case, suggest professional therapy.

3) Talk with him openly about your feelings.

The first option is the “easiest” in many ways; it also is the one guaranteed to make you miserable the rest of your life. The second option isn’t all that hard, but I generally recommend it only after you’ve tried the last option.

I’m sorry you are having a hard time!

I can’t pretend I’m in the same situation, but I will draw on my personal experience.

When I started questioning the temple that did have a very personal impact on my DH. I think it is because the temple is part of our marriage (at least in Mormondom).

Many TBM’s believe that if you are “unfaithful” to the temple covenants (or things on the TR interview) that you are nullifying the sealing ordinance. They are scared that the sealing is now void.

So, questioning the validity of temple work, taking off the “sacred” G’s…these are all things that feel very scary to a TBM. The temple is the GLUE for them!

For us, it took a shift in thinking. Yes, I think most TBM’s are commited to their spouse through their temple covenants. The temple covenants come first, not the spouse. That is why some divorce when the other “loses” the faith.

I made it clear to my sweet, wonderful DH that my marriage is with HIM and it is the most sacred, important thing we could have.

It still bothers him that I don’t always wear G’s and have some very different beliefs, but he no longer feels our relationship is threatened.

My impression from your notes is that this comparison works for him, and he sees it as a good example of showing how personal sacrafice is important, we shed the natural mortal desires in life to try to be more spiritual to be closer to God.

However, because the comparison works for HIM, doesn’t mean it is a good one. I personally don’t see how it fits at all. It brings in a sexuality and infidelity factor that I don’t see has anything to do with word of wisdom issues of health and spirituality.

I have seen in my life that sometimes I find a comparison to try to explain my point to my wife or kids, and if it seems to work, I will use it over and over again because it still seems to make sense to me. But my wife will tell me when it doesn’t make sense to her, and then I know I need to stop using that example because it doesn’t mean the same to me as it does to her. Perhaps you need to explain that concept to him, and respect his thoughts that it is ok that it makes sense to him, but it doesn’t to you so lets talk about the real issue, not something that makes you feel guilty or misunderstood. Perhaps you can try to have him explain further what the real principle is he’s trying to draw from, because the example really isn’t making sense…move away from talking about strip clubs and talk about what the real issue is. Is he disappointed? Is he fearful of something? Is he seriously considering immoral actions? What are the feelings he has behind the whole “strip club” example…and once you understand where he’s coming from, then express where you are coming from and show how it really has nothing to do with strip clubs so agree between the both of you that you’ll leave that comparison behind because of how it makes you feel. No woman should be physically, verbally, or emotionally attacked by her husband.

Sometimes a third party or professional therapist can help establish this middle ground if it is difficult to do on your own. I’ve been to many sessions myself.

When I first read your post I thought your DH’s example, though crude, was his way of expressing his own feelings of betrayal. When DH informed me of his disaffection it was a heartbreaking experience for me. The most painful words I have ever heard were when DH told me that, in his opinion, we were not sealed to each other. That hurt me more than his opinions of JS, BOM, etc. etc. I totally took it personally, like he was rejecting ME. I thought that he didn’t believe in the sealing because he didn’t love me enough. Well, of course, that was not the case. It was just one more of the many issues that we have had to talk through and figure out.

For some TBM’s the garment is an outward sign of how they feel about the temple, their sealing, etc. Perhaps your DH feels anxious when you don’t wear G’s because it makes him wonder how you feel about him. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, and I certainly don’t condone his controlling behavior, but I would say that if DH is trying to be controlling its because he feels like things in his life are out of his control. I know that I feel that way once in awhile. My DH works very hard to make sure that I know how much he loves me. I am sure you are doing the same with your DH. But maybe you need to be more specific and find out exactly how DH feels about your lack of G’s.

I think these situations cause a lot of tip toeing and walking on eggshells because both spouses are afraid to say the thing that will start another argument. So, we keep stuff inside, and then all that stuff comes spilling out at once. I am still working through stuff, so is DH. I am sure that all couples in this particular situation will be working through stuff for the rest of their/our lives. The one thing I can say is that I really believe its worth it! I often feel like I am giving up alot to make this work, but I have to remind myself that DH is giving up alot, too. Its not even like a 50/50 situation. Its more like 120/120! But its worth it!!!

I hope you understand that I am not trying to put the responsibility on you. You and DH have to work together. But I wanted to give my TBM perspective. Your DH needs to find ways to express his feelings without being hurtful. Of course, he may need to talk to someone who can help him sort out exactly how and what he feels. None of us TBM’s really have any training in how to deal with this, just like you probably had no training in how to deal with a crisis of faith.

I hope and pray you can get this worked out. Of course, if DH insists on the Strip Club thing, you could always say, “OK, LET’S go!”

jmb-Thanks . I needed that. I really do know exactly why he says it. The evils of alcohol are so deeply driven into him that it pretty much kills him to know I had so much as a toast at a wedding. I know he must see it as I don’t love him enough to obey the laws of our temple marriage. However, it just has nothing to do with our sealing, nothing at all. I love him and want to be with him forever-there is no other I would choose. We are both victims. We got married civially b/c we loved eachother – The Church didn’t play much of a role in our relationship – Except for the fact that he was BIC and inactive and I happened to have just been baptized out of love and not knowledge of the gospel. We were both kind of wolves in sheeps clothing – I honestly had NO NO concept of The Church culture or History – Which it turns out are personally very important to me. – DH honestly seemed like a buffet Mormon, if that.

I want to make him happy and proud of me. It is just difficult at times to follow a DH/DW that says My DH/Wife must-” Listen to the heed of her husband whom she says she trusts. Read the scriptures and pray daily with the pure intent to have the truthfullness of the gospel reavealed unto her. To follow the Lord’s heed so that she will be able to hold the Lord to his promises. This includes living all the commandments and obeying God’s law. Wearing the garment, obeying the word of wisdom, and reading the scriptures are they key elements that are currently lacking. ” Quote from DH Intro on FacesEast.

IOW as long as I do everything The Church believes I should do, we will be just fine. There is no room for mistakes – No room for personal revelation – No room for finding my own way_ with this new struggle of faith.

DH depises alcohol b/c it was for the most part engrained into him from infancy that it is absolutely horrible. I think strip clubs or w/e are a form of infidelity – Which hurts so that is what he uses. The two are just so far from comparrison – Take The Church out of it. You have a married couple one spouse has alcohol very rarely .. one spouse continually goes to strip clubs – IDK it is just on a whole different level. But lol it doesn’t matter b/c it isn’t about that like you said – what it all comes down to is I am the one struggling to follow some rules of an organization that I no longer take as seriously but my spouse does-I broke the contract-not him-ME! Looks like it all falls on weather I can keep up and obey or not b/c I wouldn’t give DH ultimatims unless it was something very serious-drug addiction-alcoholism etc. – Even then I would have patience-But I guess my law breakings are very serious b/c they are intertwined with eternity.

Great looks like we might need some therapy! I like to talk anyway!

Obviously, from our family, there was enormous amounts of emotional abuse from parents who chose to use the church (and its teachings) as the principal tool of abuse.

and that, in a nutshell, is one huge reason so many people struggle so hard to separate “The Church” from “their personal experience with The Church”.

For most people, experience trumps theory every time – which is why different people can view “the same organization” so differently. Experience literally makes that “same organization” thousands of “different organizations” – especially in a church with such a strong focus on family and local, lay leadership.

That sentence deserves a separate post all by itself.