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My mom just told me some temple stories her RS were told on Sunday. I used to enjoy stuff like this and now I am left not knowing what to think. Anyway, here are the stories from our area temple….
*The officiator was at the front of the temple chapel and asked a temple worker to please remove the woman wearing black. Nobody knows what he is talking about and just look around at eachother. So, he walks towards the back of the chapel and takes a woman by the arm and escorts her to the temple presidents office. She is questioned and they find out she bought the recommend on eBay.
*A woman gets dropped off and picked up by her DH when she works at the temple. One day he brings along the grandson. The woman comes out to the car and her DH is asleep and the little boy was awake. She asks the boy if he is okay and was he scared, etc. He says, “No, I was watching the people.” After some more probing he explains that he was watching people dressed all in white on the front lawn and a man dressed in white came out of the temple and invited them in.
So, for those of you who don’t believe in the supernatural and/or temple work anymore, what do you think of these kinds of stories? I’m not sure what they mean to me now.
It seems to me that when we start relying on these types of stories as “evidence” or “proof” of the unseen world, that we are on a slippery slope. “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh a sign.” It’s funny because that reproof is usually understood to refer to the atheists or non-believers who would supposedly only believe if they saw a sign. In reality, signs are ONLY significant to those who already believe in them. The issue is that the “signs” that confirm what people already believe (e.g. Catholics see the image of the Virgin Mary or stigmata) are not necessary, and they do not convince anyone who does not already believe. So what is the point of them, then? It’s hard to say. I suppose I’m in your camp. And what is the difference of a sign/story/glurge and a spiritual experience? My opinion is that the only spiritual experiences that matter are the ones that are personal to you, not stories of other people that theoretically prove something. Maybe they are true. Maybe not. But if they are not personal, I think they can be problematic.
Hawk is right. Let me tell you what they mean to me, and then I’d like to relate a personal experience. I have the following reactions to such stories:
There is more going on around us than meets the eye
- All revelation is subject to human translation, interpretation, interpolation, and hijacking
- All nations, creeds, kindreds, tongues, and peoples are experiencing these things
- …and abusing them for their partisan ends and needs
- Oh how merciful is Heaven, and how ready to dispense glory to the children of men!
You may have noticed that near-death stories are dearly meaningful to me. As a child and youth, I occasionally heard snippets of near-death stories, which interested me, and I had some interest in reading more about them. But I had a constant spiritual restraint from doing so. I believe it was because I knew I would only be looking for a sign and for sensationalism. And perhaps heaven knew I would also be looking for narrow validation of my partisan views. It was without question or doubt a wise constraint. But on October 27, 2003, where the spiritual feeling about them had been one of constraint, suddenly the gate opened and the spurs were on my flanks. I read dozens of them in one night, and then read dozens more in the coming days. Did I get information?
Yes!Did I get everything I had every hoped for? Riches unsearchable? Treasures of knowledge? Yes!Does it mean anything to you? Probably not. It was for me. The timing was right, my heart was right, and the earth’s history was right for Heaven to speak to me in that way. Bottom line: Faith promoting stories that are abused and passed along until only tenuously related to fact may still serve Heaven in some way (who am I to say?). Diverse and simple, non-partisan, first-person testimony may even serve Heaven better.
What has been said already. I have had a few sublime moments in my life where the heavens opened up and I understood that we are not alone in the universe. I have shared each of them at some point with someone (and one of them quite publicly twice), but ONLY when I felt a “prompting” to do so. The two times I shared one experience publicly, it was not offered as “proof” of anything, necessarily; instead, it was offered as a feeling that some people who would read it needed to know that God truly does love His children.
I really dislike it when personal experiences become nothing more than pulp fiction – meaning not that they all are fictional, but rather that even true ones lose their power and become nothing more than formulaic. I think there is a reason Jesus chose such strong words as, “Cast not your pearls before the swine” – and I think defining “swine” is FAR less important than defining “pearls”.
Thank you everyone. I think I was leaning towards the idea that the experiences are true for those individuals, but it doesn’t have to translate to meaning anything for me. I also thought of how many other people of other religions and cultures have their own unique experiences. Who am I to say those aren’t real. I do enjoy when people share their experiences when appropriate. I like sharing, too, when I feel it could be helpful. But not as proof that others should believe a certain way.
Well MIL has two or three tithing stories of Great Grandparents giving family food money to tithing – And then finding 50 dollar bills once outside and once randomly in a Bible ( after being told by the Holy Ghost to look) – Do I believe her? No not really – That and she flat out lies about many things continually to the point of I don’t believe much of anything she says 
I don’t know if I’ve had anything “Of another World” or w/e happen to me but once at my Great Grand-In-Laws I was in the living room by myself and heard the slightest singing voice of a woman – Great Grandma In-Law had passed away a year before and was a great singer, so I’ve heard – This reassures me that there are angels, spirits good or bad all around us. I’m sure people don’t believe me but I don’t really care. I would have to know the person telling the story – then from there I guess decide if I trust them or not … These passed down stories personally do nothing for me at the moment-Maybe I have trust issues. I hope in time I will again. Edited to add that I think I am in a phase of thinking everyone is not telling the truth! And it sucks … I’m noticing the ho-hum testimonies that seem robotic at times do nothing for me anymore either – Except for my DHs – B/C I know him and I know he is an amazing man just trying to do what he knows to be right .. I envy his faith at times! Currently Garment and tithing stories sometimes temple stories really turn me off – Just b/c it feels like people are screaming “You are wrong – And I can prove it by my own personal experiences” EVEN though they have no idea that I am struggling with these things! I guess I’m pretty silly at times.
Ummm, yeah what hawkgrrrl said. But let me add a different twist that hasn’t been mentioned yet. I love personal stories. Faithful, disaffected, hateful, vengeful, it really doesn’t matter to me. Why? Because it makes me feel a kinship with that individual. For me, when I hear a personal story, I feel like I am being a given a priceless piece of that individual. I treasure that piece and revere it as something to be honored and respected. It doesn’t matter to me whether it’s reality or not (my personal beliefs are a different ball of wax), it allows me to feel close to that individual. And most importantly, in the moment when I hear the story and feel the emotion coming from the individual, I am swept away and caught up in their emotion. For a split second I feel like I am seeing things through that person’s eyes, and feel and see what I believe Joseph Campbell was describing when he said that each person emanates God. This, to me, is how we become one with nature, God, and humanity. We begin to see things through the eyes of others.
Sorry for the drama, but I really do love personal stories.
just me wrote:So, for those of you who don’t believe in the supernatural and/or temple work anymore, what do you think of these kinds of stories? I’m not sure what they mean to me now.
I’m glad you posted this, and reading others responses is good for me to think about. I like Hawkgrrrl’s comments:
Hawkgrrrl wrote:It seems to me that when we start relying on these types of stories as “evidence” or “proof” of the unseen world, that we are on a slippery slope.
I don’t think, personally, there is much value to repeating many of these stories because if they really happened, they have personal value to those involved, but by themselves, they don’t stand up as faith promoting or of much value in proving anything. I like the stories that are really faith promoting, that is they help you feel closer to God’s love, rather than just a story of “Did you hear that this happened once?”
I believe this is what I think about in testimony meetings much of the time, people sharing personal stories of prayers answered, and when the person delivering the testimony is sincere in sharing how it made them feel, it touches me. When they say it in a way of “if we hadn’t listened to those promptings, then [fill in the blank] would have happened, so that proves God hears our prayers.” – well… I try not to judge others, but they don’t do anything for me because they don’t “prove” anything. (and unfortunately too many times I feel testimony meetings are too much of the latter, and not enough of the former).
Apart from testimony meeting, the “stories” repeated in a classroom setting are to me like mormon urban legends, and they usually don’t promote my faith. But I will often politely listen because many times they are meaningful to others. And that is fine too. Here is the definition of
Urban Legendswhich seem to fit many of these “stories” that get retold in classes. Quote:Urban legends are popular stories alleged to be true which spread from person to person via oral or written communication (e.g., fax or email). Typically, said stories concern outlandish, humiliating, humorous, terrifying, or supernatural events — events which, in the telling, always happened to someone else.
In lieu of evidence, the teller of an urban legend relies on narrative skill and reference to allegedly trustworthy sources (e.g., “I heard this from a friend of a friend”) to bolster its credibility. Sometimes, but not always, there’s an implied moral message, e.g., “Be careful, or the same thing could happen to you!”
Urban legends are a type of folklore — defined as the beliefs, stories and traditions of ordinary people (“the folk”) — thus, one way of differentiating between urban legends and other kinds of narratives (popular fiction, for example) is by examining where they come from and how they are disseminated. Legends tend to arise spontaneously and are rarely traceable to a single point of origin. And again, they spread primarily from individual to individual through interpersonal communication, and only in atypical cases through mass media or other institutional means.
Because they end up being repeated by many different people in many different places, the stories tend to change over time. Hence, no two versions of an urban legend are ever exactly alike; there can be as many variants as there are tellers of the tale.
Reading through some of the other responses, I wanted to comment on these as well. Tom wrote:Diverse and simple, non-partisan, first-person testimony may even serve Heaven better.
I think you are exactly right, Tom…when it moves past 1st person, it seems to really lose faith promoting value for me.
I like LaLa’s attitude:
LaLaLove wrote:This reassures me that there are angels, spirits good or bad all around us. I’m sure people don’t believe me but I don’t really care. I would have to know the person telling the story – then from there I guess decide if I trust them or not … These passed down stories personally do nothing for me at the moment-Maybe I have trust issues.
When it is something of personal value to you (hearing the singing voice), it really doesn’t matter what others think…you don’t need to validate it with others, and who cares if they believe you. Most of my experiences I keep to myself and only share when I feel “prompted”, as Ray stated.
jmb275 wrote:I love personal stories.
[snip]
Sorry for the drama, but I really do love personal stories.
I really do love that post. Stories are so important to us all. More than we often remember.
Not entirely along the same lines, but there is crossover, I did a post on Mormon Matters last year about glurge: http://mormonmatters.org/2008/05/01/the-mormon-urge-to-glurge/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormonmatters.org/2008/05/01/the-mormon-urge-to-glurge/ Hawkgrrrl, That “glurge” topic was awesome. Thanks for sharing, the comments were great to read on my lunch break today.
This was my favorite one:
Quote:#22. I like the term “Twinkies” because when I go to Sacrament meeting, “asking for bread”, I’m frequently handed some junk food twinkie instead. The term, as far as I know, came from here:
http://www.zionsbest.com/twinkies.html I guess there can be a difference between Paul H Dunn type elaborated or falsified stories presented as if they are fact, and just a personal story that may or may not be true to the originator, but still means nothing to me too far removed from the source. The first is manipulative and should be presented more accurately (i.e. Though not factual, a story to illustrate this point is…), IMO.
My favorite “glurge” story is the frog gently boiling to death as Satan slowly turns the heat up. Often used for application in youth lessons.
“Fried froth” or “Twinkies” expresses exactly how many of these stories are to me…they do not satisfy me. However, a sincere testimony of someone feeling God’s love (even without any angel visits or temple stories) can stay with me all week long.
I appreciate the need to cite our sources or limit to personal experiences, but I often say in my family, “ No grumpy grouching allowed(or aloud? 
The parables of Jesus, the analogy of the boiling frogs, The Touch of The Master’s Hand, Footprints in the Sand, “I never said it would be easy”, Don’t Quit, Get up and Win the Race, etc, in my humble opinion, are obviously not faith promoting rumors. They are art. Like all art, they can be abused for partisan purposes (“I feel the spirit as I hear this poem in Relief Society, therefore plural marriage was holy or [insert any True Church extrapolation].”) But I think it’s more likely, for the examples I cited at least, that they tend to induce a feeling of “Look what good we share with other religions and people!” And that is a fundamentally good thing. The more we hear in church and grow to love things that we are bound to eventually see on TV, at the office, in our emails, on bumper stickers, at Walmart and Hallmark, and on our customer’s refrigerator, the more we will realize we are not alone against the world.
So
bring on the faith-promoting, truth-containing art from all quarters and fill up the church with it. Truth is bigger than fact. And truth is bigger than the church. Tom
Love this idea, Tom! The art analogy/comparison is perfect. Art, like truth, is in the eye of the beholder. It can only be interpreted by the individual and becomes the individuals’ sole property. It can be shared but should never be imposed, either indirectly through implication or directly through coercion. Faith is each persons individual artistic expression. Although I abhor the oxymoronic concept of “faith promoting stories”, I love this idea!
I also love the art analogy, Tom. It sums up the distinction I’ve tried to draw very well. Thanks for sharing it.
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