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I don’t know how to overcome this frustration and occasional anger I have. I’m so disillusioned with the church. It is like nothing they say is good enough for me anymore. I realize that some of the things they say are good but I guess I just don’t want to hear it from them anymore. I go to sacrament meeting and immediately want to leave because of what one of the speakers say. I no longer attend sunday school or priesthood because it is just way too frustrating for me to hear the same things over and over that I know are inaccurate. I started this journey over 3 years ago and I still can’t get past these feelings. I still attend sacrament meeting for my family only. I don’t want my primary age kids to get confused or have mental anguish about having a non-believing dad, but I feel like I’m going crazy. I spend hours on the Internet trying to make sense of it all, talking with others in my situation but it has never really helped me to move on. This has been a major drag on my life for the last three years and I want it to be over, but I don’t know how to just let all the crap go and be a happy positive person again. HELP!!! Hi Kinderhook, you have come to the right place. Have you read John Dehlin’s essay about how to stay in the LDS church after a major trial of faith? If not, please read it right away. That essay has done so much to help my husband and myself. My DH is disaffected, but has decided to stay in the church for the sake of our family, and John’s essay gives practical advice on how to make it work. Our children do not know of his disaffection. I am a believing latter day saint, so its important to me that our children be raised in the church, and DH is supportive. He holds a calling and attends some, but not all, of the meetings. He skips the whole block when he feels he needs to. Our situation is NOT perfect, but we are working together to make it as good as it can be. Your concern for your family is so sweet and touching. Please know that there are other familes like yours. Does your wife know of your feelings? If not, I am sure that you often feel isolated. So, I hope you can find support here.
My wife is well aware of my feelings. She is trying to be supportive. At some point, however, my kids will find out and I don’t intend on lying to them. I feel that they have a right to know why I don’t fully believe in the Church anymore. They have a right to know about the church’s history and decide for themselves if they want to stay in. I know if they leave it will kill my wife and that makes me so sad, but I just can’t feel responsible for my children being led on like I was. They are young now so I don’t really share hardly anything with them at this point and when I do it will be when appropriate. I don’t think it is helpful to dump everything on them at once, it certainly hasn’t been for me. Thanks for your kind words.
Kinderhook08 wrote:I go to sacrament meeting and immediately want to leave because of what one of the speakers say.
[snip]
I feel that they have a right to know why I don’t fully believe in the Church anymore. They have a right to know about the church’s history and decide for themselves if they want to stay in.
I’m with you, brother. Right there with you. It’s so important to tell the truth to your kids. It’s hard to find the gentle and affirming way. I think my kids know that I place the Golden Rule, the Sermon on the Mount, I Am a Child of God, and Love One Another at the center of my religion. I am far from perfect, and I do bad things to them sometimes. But I think they see me growing and getting more gentle, peaceful, and patient as I feel more certainly the Love of Heaven and see more clearly other people the world over.
Your desires are the same desires I have, and I want to be true to them, just as you do. I think our children will understand as long as we practice stage-appropriate openness with them (you might benefit from
Fowler’s Stages12With warmest greeting,
Hi Kinderhook! I’m sorry you are still stuck in the anger/frustration part of this journey. Do you study uplifting spiritual materials or focus all on church history and other church issues?
I have to admit that I mostly bypassed the anger stage (which is incredibly unusual) but I did mourn the loss of what I thought the church was.
I find that I am happiest, most edified when I read spiritual books with a gnostic bent. I also really like this forum for working out issues. I have found that I feel the most confused and distressed when I read apologetics and “anti” material. So I have to try to avoid what makes me upset and cling to what makes me feel uplifted. If I do want to read some church history I find it best to do it in small doses and stick to sources that aren’t hateful or mocking (from either side).
For me, transitioning to a mythological/symbolic belief in the scriptures and church history has really, really helped me make sense out of it and be okay with it. However, I know that some hold on to their historical/literal belief in the scriptures and can also get past the anger.
It is difficult to listen to black/white thinking when your world has changed to technicolor. But at some point you have to realise that that is just where those people are on their journey. You may have the opportunity once in awhile to share something with them that can help them on their journey to seeing technicolor, too.
Our youngest child is 13, so DC are very plugged in at church. DH doesn’t want to turn their world upside down. We already teach tolerance and love for other religious ideas. We also teach tolerance for other lifestyles and choices, so we plan to expand our teachings to include the idea of a big mormon tent, with lots of differing opinions. Does your wife know about FacesEast? Its a forum site for believing LDS who have spouses with other beliefs. It has helped me so much. I know it has helped DH, too, because he can see things from many points of view. Invite your wife to visit this site, as well as FacesEast, she can also private message if she wants to talk.
There are some really smart people who post on this site, I hope you get to read their messages. I wish you the best of luck. One thing I can say is that this experience has shown me how much I love DH and how important my family is to me. I have made the choice to put DH and DC above all else in my life. DH is doing the same. We are both giving up what we would consider our ideal in favor of having a great marriage. Easy choice when you think about it.
just me wrote:It is difficult to listen to black/white thinking when your world has changed to technicolor. But at some point you have to realise that that is just where those people are on their journey. You may have the opportunity once in awhile to share something with them that can help them on their journey to seeing technicolor, too.
What you said was awesome Just Me! Thanks for sharing that gem of wisdom.
I feel for you too Kinderhook. Not to bum you out, but I am not sure if any of us every completely gets over this experience. It happens rarely for me, but I still catch myself getting flustered on occasion. The anger is like pain. Pain tells us where we are hurt, in need of healing and growth. We have to become comfortable with what we believe, even if it is different. I try to remember that I irritate THOSE people when I talk about my less literal and non-true/false views. I try to remember to love them, where they are at, as they are.
As for telling children about our doubts? I recommend going very very slow, and making sure you communicate with them on THEIR level. Young children want to know there are answers. They don’t want all the angst and uncertainty of doubt from their parents. They need things to be simple and sure. Parents should give that to them. That’s my opinion. It’s good to ask them, “hey what do you think?” and be accepting of what they say. I’ve noticed my younger kids really respond to that. They get to think things through a little, and get used to the idea it is normal to wonder and make guesses about these giant cosmic questions.
You might be surprised at how well older teenagers respond. I’ve had some excellent conversations with my 14, 16 and 18 year old children. My oldest son was really quite relieved to hear me express some of my own doubts and concerns, and let him know that adults at Church don’t have all the answers. They can be wrong. It was important for him, as a new adult, to hear that. He is not the only one that is worried or confused at times, and could see that I still had a great love for the Church and religion.
He saw that it was ok to sometimes question what he hears people say, and that HIS view is important. I got a really sense of relief from him that I validated his concerns and questions.
Quote:Does your wife know about FacesEast?
She does know about it. I guess she went there and someone told her that it only gets worse. They said their husband stopped believing, then started to drink, then started to do other things (I’m not sure what) and she got freaked out that I would do this also as time went on. I had to reassure her I still loved her and was not going to turn into some spawn of Satan. The short of it is it didn’t help her to go there. That may have been because she was still pretty hardcore TBM and was just getting used to the idea that her husband didn’t believe like her anymore, I don’t know.
I am so sorry that happened…Hugs to both you and DW. I think alot of TBM spouses freak out when their H/W loses their faith. I think my DH described my initial reaction as “going ape s**t”. I had so many questions, but didn’t know how to find the answers. So, I went online and found this site. It was a poster here that directed me to FE. I hope you can find some practical advice/information here. I also hope DW is doing ok….. pinkpatent wrote:I also hope DW is doing ok…..
Thanks for your concern. I worry about her too. Despite our disagreements about church, I love her very much and would never want to cause her pain. I think she has become slightly more liberal (very slightly) because of her exposure to the things I have learned and passed on to her. However, she still refuses to let anything affect her testimony that the Church is true. Outwardly, she appears fine, but I know inwardly it causes her pain that she doesn’t feel she can share with me. It really bothers me that I can’t do anything to help her except regain my testimony and I know for now or in the near future that won’t happen. I don’t think I will ever be the same and I’m not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing for our marriage.
I can so relate. When DH told me of his disaffection he had already read online about many TBM spouses leaving the newly disaffected H/W. He was really scared to tell me, but keeping it inside was tearing him apart. I know that DH will never see the church the same way again, and to be honest, neither will I. But thats ok. I love DH the way he is. I also love the church, but I can TOTALLY see DH’s point of view. I also know how much it would upset me if DH tried to force his beliefs on me. So, I try to be respectful, so does he. I think the hardest part for me (and maybe for your DW) was not knowing what would happen to our sealing. I have had to put that in the Lord’s hands. Its one of those things I cannot control. So, instead of poisoning my marriage now with anger over “broken covenants”, I just try to have faith that things will work out. If DW needs someone to talk to, she can pm me, either here or on FE. Are you in U.S.? Hey Kinderhook…I’ve had some similar feelings about attending church, maybe not exactly the same, but have struggled finding the motivation to go, yet worried about the impact to my kids if I don’t. I found some things very helpful for me. Instead of keep forcing myself to keep trying, keep praying to figure it out, keep reading through blogs to prove things…I kind of stopped, took a step back, and decided a new approach. My new approach was to expose myself to some different things instead of keep doing the same thing every Sunday and hating it.
I found that I attended an Evangelical church, Episcopal church, and a congreational church on sunday on my own apart from my normal LDS meetings. I also read lots of new books, like The Power of Myth by John Campbell, An American Gospel by Erik Reece, and a couple books from the library on buddhism.
I quickly saw things in some of those sources that I totally disregarded and don’t believe. But there were also some really fascinating stuff that complimented my current beliefs. I started thinking I could view things differently. Instead of going to church and dreading the speakers/teachers rhetoric and empty story-telling, I found bits and pieces of things at church that I liked, and then went home and studied on my own. I think it changed my view so now I enjoy the stories at church that people tell, and don’t feel so on edge with my feelings.
That might not work for you or for everyone, but I guess for me it helped let go of forcing things to be “right” and started me focusing less on “the church” and more on my journey to find God in my life and appreciate all the things around me that help me feel God’s love, not just things inside the church. I also found my kids simply saw me as studying, which was a good example, not something that was a negative example for them, yet I was being honest with them that I was engaged in spiritual learning. I have found evidence of God in nature walks, in witnessing kind acts or acts of service from people in the neighborhood, and also in non-LDS sermons on bible topics that teach truth. It was refreshing. I’m less concerned with whether everything in church is true, and more concerned with finding evidence of truth all around me, including in the church.
Have you done much study outside the LDS church to find nuggets of truth to bring back into your own frame of things?
All I can say right now is that I feel for you. I was VERY fortunate to learn at a very young age that most people at church don’t see things the way I do – and to have parents who never discouraged me from developing my own view about things. If you are interested, I wrote something on Mormon Matters a year ago describing my own perspective on this general topic:
“The Bright Night of My Soul” (
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/22/the-bright-night-of-my-soul/ Kinderhook08 wrote:pinkpatent wrote:It really bothers me that I can’t do anything to help her except regain my testimony and I know for now or in the near future that won’t happen. I don’t think I will ever be the same and I’m not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing for our marriage.
I really don’t intend this comment to be a bummer … but yeah, there is no going backwards to how it was. We try to turn that into a good thing. That is my hope, my faith and my belief. I highly recommend showing your spouse extra love and attention. Make sure she knows you support her beliefs (even if that is hard to do). Don’t change your behaviors quickly, which really isn’t a good idea anyway.
Another moderator here named Orson is a GREAT resource for advice. He’s been pretty busy lately. He is in your situation.
My marriage is the opposite mirror image. I am the “faithful” spouse that remains in the Church. So we end up with really different arguments
I was in your exact spot too, kinderhook, about a year ago. In my experience, love, patience, kindness, openness, honesty, and emotional health in the marriage will always make it stronger, no matter how hard or difficult the “trying” times. If the marriage is about love and acceptance, wherein you “choose” each other rather than worrying about what others may think in your immediate families or in the church or in the church culture/community, you will find yourselves in a better marriage than you ever thought imaginable. Sorry for the cheesy, cliche but, hey, that’s how it happened to me.
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