Home Page Forums Support A very bad Thursday

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  • #204130
    Anonymous
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    Last Thursday July 16, 2009, I got in a fight with my 16-year-old daughter and ended up shushing her mouth with my hand for several seconds and wrestling her to the ground in anger. Something similar to that happened last year with her too. I am distraught about it and discouraged.

    My parents never overcame me physically when I was over 8. The worst I remember was once when I hit my dad with a piece of tossed firewood and he ran after me and kicked me. Other than that, the anger was always emotional/verbal. As I think of what my daughter must feel like, it just doesn’t seem fair, and I wish I could somehow guarantee that I would never become angry or touch her in anger again. I have never in her life struck her in anger, but we had power struggles very often when she was little and I was under false traditions about parenting as the imposition of will. I want so bad to love her purely and unconditionally.

    Well, I just wanted to get that off my chest so you all would know just one of the terrible ways I am struggling with evil. God bless you all in your walks to find love and forgiveness.

    Tom

    #219372
    Anonymous
    Guest

    (((hugs)))

    My dad struggled with his anger-mostly yelling, some physical. All the kids carry some issues from it, some more than others.

    The single most important thing that we would have liked is an apology after each incident. My dad felt like apologizing would be pointless since he knew he would do it again. But, apologizing helps the child. Actually, he can’t even remember doing the things that scarred us which bothers me a little.

    Now I find myself sometimes having the same struggle. It is so frustrating! Like you, I am striving for Christ like love and compassion so those outbursts can be even more devestating than “before.” Although I am more able to forgive myself and look at it without a black/white lens.

    Anyway, I don’t know if my post is for you or someone else. If you haven’t talked to her, please do it now. She may have acted out in a way that needs to be addressed, but don’t be afraid to admit your wrong. She is old enough to understand.

    I think the hardest thing to do as a parent is let go of Satan’s plan of control. Very, very hard!

    #219373
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Tom, a couple thoughts from a dad who has a 16 and 14 yr old daughter myself…

    1) Remember the old “emotional bank account” idea…times you say or do things that hurt each other are withdrawals, times you love and serve eachother are deposits. We’re not perfect parents, so withdrawals will happen…just double up the effort to make deposits afterwards. I like just me’s advice of apologies, even if you fear it may happen again…at least she’ll see the effort and heart-felt apology…that means something. I text message my girls from my work during the day to just say “I love you” after an incident. That means something to them.

    2) Relationships with our kids go 2 ways, and they should learn that. Maybe a date night or walk together would let you express your feelings, and what makes you so mad you did what you did. She should realize her part in the situation too…not to point fingers or shift blame from the adult to the child in guilt, simply in how to develop the relationship so that there is an agreement ahead of time what you will do to stop it next time before it gets to a point you will regret.

    I’m not a professional with this stuff…just another dad. Anyway, just some thoughts of support for ya. You’re a good man. Don’t be too hard on yourself. (shot in the arm).

    #219374
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I appreciate the reminder about apologies. I so understand the mindset of your dad. That’s exactly how I used to think as a traditional believer and with her when she was little. Gratefully with my two boys I have practiced apologies and unconditional love from the beginning, which has made all the difference.

    I will make sure I am liberal with the apologies and expressions of how far I missed the ideal. Here’s what I often say to my boys.

    “What I did was wrong. I’m so sorry. I don’t know what would have been the right thing to do, and sometimes I just run out of understanding, and my love and knowledge aren’t enough. I’m going to keep praying and learning, and I hope to do better. But I want you to know that that behavior of mine was wrong, and not the way the Father would treat you if he were here.”

    Tom

    #219375
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Tom,

    Don’t beat yourself up to much. Apologize quickly and move on. I had a deep discussion with a daughter-in-law recently. I told her a truth that most of us don’t like to admit, that “Males are flawed.” She laughed and asked in what way. I responded “in every which way.” We try so much to be what is expected of us; good provider, perfect husband, perfect dad, and then we toss on top; Patriarch. We think we need to have SUPREME DIRECTIONAL CONTROL. What a crock of …. Families work together, individuals apologize when they blow it, and a new day dawns tomorrow. In closing I would ask one question, has your daughter ever stated in anger, “I HATE YOU.” Chances are she has thought it. She may be embarrassed also. Take her for ice cream…

    #219376
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Model repentance verbally and openly.

    Have you ever shared with her the biological and experiential aspect of your struggle? Does she understand the biological and experiential aspect of her own struggle?

    Finally, I believe strongly that the Atonement / grace covers those things that are “natural” within us that we didn’t choose consciously – that the manifestations of Adam’s transgression in our individual lives are accounted as transgressions to us, NOT sin. Therefore, I believe you can tackle this shortcoming proactively without “guilt”. It’s not something you chose, so it’s been forgiven already.

    #219377
    Anonymous
    Guest

    George and Ray, Thanks so much. I try to remember that I must stay positive and keep the spirit, and that the Father sees me and my daughter as beautiful. In my inward LDS religion there really is no place for shame or guilt since we all are complicit. There is only pain and compassion and sickness and healing. No shame, guilt, punishment, and exoneration.

    I will make sure to treat her as well as I do the boys in modeling repentance, forgiveness, and unconditional love and ice cream. Excellent advice.

    #219378
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hugs to you Tom. I grew up in a household where my parents never argued in front of us. I think that is good in some ways, but bad in others, because its just not natural. People argue sometimes, and how are children supposed to learn how to argue constructively if they never see it?

    Likewise, children need to see their parents’ successes as well as failings. That is how they learn how to deal with each. I can guarantee you, having once been a 16 year old girl, that teen age girls often lose control of their emotions. Seeing this happen in a trusted adult can help your daughter learn how to deal with it when it happens, as well as how to clean up afterwards.

    #219379
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Pinkpatent,

    I really appreciate that perspective. I needed that. Deeply thanks to you. You never know when you are going to be just the teacher a person needs.

    All,

    You are very loving and supportive. Thanks so much!!!

    Tom

    #219380
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for sharing this Tom. It’s a topic I haven’t seen yet on the site. It’s a good one that effects a lot of us.

    #219381
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m reading a book my aunt gave me called Real Love by Greg Baer. I could swear he is LDS, but I don’t think he is. It is about our deperate need for unconditional love (starting at our childhood) and how we settle for and get and protect our imitation love (idols???) when we don’t have the real thing.

    Anyway, the plan he is selling is to find unconditional love by telling the truth about yourself. That’s what I am trying to do. It’s scary, but important. Thanks, all, for your love.

    Tom

    #219382
    Anonymous
    Guest

    @Tom

    It sounds a bit like the relationship I have with my 4 year old. Unfortunately for her and me, she’s just like me in personality. Hence we have a battle of wills. We all do things we wish we hadn’t done. I’m certainly no model parent. I have full confidence though that you know how to make it right. You’re a great inspiration to all of us here!!

    #219383
    Anonymous
    Guest

    jmb275 wrote:

    the relationship I have with my 4 year old… a battle of wills

    Flashback city! I wish with all my heart I could impart to you all I have learned in these 12 years. Consider the following:

  • Be present with her. Enjoy her reality everyday. Picture poignantly the day she is gone.

  • Seek not to have an obedient child, but to have a child who is capable of loving all that is good.
  • Be aware that anger, irritation, and disappointment are sure signs you aren’t loving her unconditionally at that moment. And you need to.
  • Give in and apologize and seek another way early and often. Be smart enough to avoid power struggles (you can’t win in the long run anyway; she will be what she wants to be and think what she wants to think).
  • Despise your own convenience and projects if they are making you relate to her with anger and irritation.
  • A story:

    She was about 6. It was sacrament meeting. She was “misbehaving”. I took her out. Summer in Mesa. In front of the chapel behind the bushes. I wanted her to say she would behave better, then we would go back in. She refused. I refused to give in. Power struggggggggle time! Hot. I penned her in against the building, demanding a promise. I probably eventually gave in. I later told my dear dad about it (See, even then I was growing and knew I was out of line.). He said simply, “Well, Jesus probably would just have said, ‘That was wrong. Don’t do it again.'” Wow! What a life changer.

    Those power struggles are bad, bad, bad. Here are some false doctrines to beware of:

    FALSE, DANGEROUS IDEAS

  • Your job is to be a parent, not a friend.

  • You have to show them early who is boss, then they will respect you when they are older
  • Obedience is the first law of heaven (there is some truth to this, but parents can really misapprehend and misuse it)
  • The only way to teach them what’s right is to punish them when they do wrong.
  • Anger and disappointment are okay as a response to bad behavior.
  • Parenting can be incredibly fulfilling and delightful when approached in the heavenly way from the beginning. I know that from experience with later children.

#219384
Anonymous
Guest

Parenting can be very challenging. For me, I started off with intentions of teaching right from wrong (that’s a good thing, right?). I’ve taken my kids out of sacrament meeting also to get them to behave, because I think it is important to teach them to be reverent and not be disruptive to others.

Even with good parenting intentions, it is when they don’t behave, or make a bad choice that it becomes tricky. If I let them misbehave…am I teaching the behavior is ok? If I discipline them, am I establishing myself as an authority instead of caring about them (see Tom’s list of false, dangerous ideas)?

All these questions go through my mind, and after raising 4 kids so far (each is so different), I think that I just do what I think I need to do to help them learn what I think is right, even if I realize I could be wrong cause I’m not perfect, but I just have to do the best I can.

What I have found is that those intense times (fights, discipline time, grounding, power struggles) come and go and I try to keep them in perspective of always doing what will help them in the long run, which sometimes means tough love.

But MORE important is the time outside those intense times. How often do I spend time with them, talk to them, hug them, laugh with them, get to know their friends, and give them tons of compliments? I schedule regular interviews with them so I know on my calendar we will have time to talk, but I have to be giving them positive time outside of that more frequently than monthly and less formally than a scheduled meeting.

When the intense times come, you can’t beat yourself up…that is a part of parenting (I think). But you really need to make efforts to make the other things happen or they won’t always just happen by themselves, from my experience. I’m sure you guys do that also.

What are the things that work best with your daughter and you, Tom?

#219385
Anonymous
Guest

Heber13 wrote:

What are the things that work best with your daughter and you, Tom?

Somebody else asked that question or said something similar, and I have to admit it is paralyzing to me. My first knee-jerk reaction is to say, “Nothing works between us.” I want to close down and look the other way. I want to avert my gaze. I know that is a danger sign.

OK, since you are pushing again, what works best?

  • Encouraging her in cooking

  • Speaking positively about her friendships, chatting, and people time
  • Encouraging her in her efforts to be a good babysitter for her little brothers
  • Listening and implementing her suggestions for shopping, decorating, and just treating her in general with human respect and equality
  • Maybe I can affirm what works every day in my prayers.

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