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I am 37 years old, raised in the church, active my whole life, served a complete mission to Wisconsin. I came home, was disfellowshiped for having sex with my girlfriend. I went through the repentance process and was re-fellowshiped approximately 3 years later. I found another woman and we married in a civil ceremony and sealed a year later in the temple. I was active for the 11 years we were married. We divorced 3 years ago. I was single, living by myself and I did everything I wanted to fill in the “holes” of loss in my life such as alcohol, prescription drugs, porn, and sex. The LDS dating websites are really just giant “meat markets”. It’s an unbelievable underground world where there is A LOT of sex being had from these sites.
Me having a conscious and an intolerance for guilt. decided to make it “right” with myself, God, and the church. So I met with my bishop in the area where I was living. A guy who by the way had never said all but about 5 words to me in the 10 months I lived in his ward and attended regularly. The meeting lasted all of about 13 minutes. Just long enough for me to “vomit” onto his desk of what I had done. He paused for a half a second and said well we will probably need to get a court together. So he gets out his note pad and proceeds to collect the facts: how many women, how many times, etc, etc. So that was that. I went home feeling like I had just completed a business transaction instead of meeting with my priesthood leader. (I should have asked for a receipt for my time!)
About a week later, the bishop calls me and proceeds to ask the same questions over the phone. Collecting the facts that I had already revealed. I thought this was very unusual and completely non confidential. How do I know who was within ear-shot of his conversation? So months, passed and I didn’t hear anything from the bishop at all. I even went to the Stake President in that stake and laid out my story to him as well and he was very empathetic and all. He basically told me we will be in touch with you. (don’t call us, we’ll call you). yeah right. A couple months passed, not a word from anybody.
I ended up moving to another city after meeting my current wife. We dated for 3 months and were married. For 2 years we were active, attending often, paying tithing, attending all of our meetings feeling really good about our progression. I even fasted and prayed for my own forgiveness of my sins which was a really powerful and moving experience.
I decided to try again with my current bishop whom has never known me up until this point although I have been attending for months on a regular basis. to make things right. So last November I make an appointment I lay it all out AGAIN. To my shock, it was an exact carbon copy of what happened in my previous ward! The meeting lasted all of about 14 minutes. Another “business transaction”. These bishops have no idea of who I am, my background, personality, what I do for a living. nothing, all they see is some “perv”.
And just like the previous bishop, I get a phone call some weeks later outlining what I told them in the office. Unsecured phone call, how lovely. It took 5 months to get to the point of the actual court date. All the while no one asked any questions to get to know me, No follow up meeting with the bishop. I actually called the bishop to find out what the heck is going on with the process. So during the Bishops Court process, I brought my wife as a character witness to describe my efforts and progress. (in the papers I am served it states I can bring witness) The court never gave me an opportunity to invite my witness. So they decided to disfellowship me. they also cited my previous disfellowshipment. (so much for your sins being forgotten). They had the documentation there like a previous criminal history.
They decided that I should undergo counseling, community service, and drug treatment as well as attending my meeting etc.
So because of the way that all of my two years of sincere efforts in repenting and making every effort on my own accord to make this right were seemingly totally dismissed. Mine and my wife’s attitude is basically screw it. We honestly tried and tried, and all the bishopric see is what I did. They still have no idea of who I am as a person. I stopped going to church all together for the following 4 months. I decided to give it a try again and every time I go back to church I just feel completely out of place and uncomfortable.
So I really am on the fence of should I stay with the church or should I leave it. I am feeling very disenfranchised. Like my feelings of repentance and how I felt when I brought this before the Lord were completely dismissed.
Anyway there you have it. I guess you could classify it as “I tried to repent and become one of the fold, Instead, I was discounted, dismissed and am unknown. Just a membership number that needs to be dealt with”. And It happened more than once in different cities. How sad.
[moderator hat on, moving this to the Support section] [commentor hat on]
Overall, you have to decide if the value proposition the Church offers gives you a net profit from the relationship. That is an individual and personal decision. Only you can answer it.
I see something in your story I would like to point out for discussion. It often helps to break things down and untangle problems a bit. There are three themes:
1. The quest for repentence and forgiveness.
This may or may not be tied to your priesthood leaders. It is really just something between you and God. So the social approval of your local leaders can be seen as not totally relevent.
2. The religious legal process of Church discipline.
This is just plain what it is. It’s a mixed bag depending on your local leaders. It sounds like you have issues that rose to the level where the administrative process requires formal Church discipline. This is NOT the same thing as repentence and forgiveness. It might be good to dig into that difference.
3. Feeling of approval or belonging in your local ward (aka your tribe).
It’s unlikely that many people know about your disciplinary status or repentence/forgiveness status. Your sense of belonging comes from you. This might also be a good concept to explore a bit more.
Hello. I understand a little of the frustration you feel with priesthood. Going to the bishop for anything isn’t my favorite activity. I honestly wonder sometimes if the leaders are so worried about administering correctly, that they forget that there is real person sitting in front of them. A real person who is risking so much to tell the truth and who really do need a soft spiritually rich place to fall for a moment. Maybe the bishops are just people too. Maybe you were the first real confession this bishop had to deal with. Or maybe this bishop had no interpersonal skills and he was sending prayer thoughts up to God about his own insecurities. Or maybe he was just a poop. I can’t really know. But maybe it was an opportunity for you to deal with another very imperfect human in order to move closer to the repentance you so badly needed. Or maybe it was your challenge to humble yourself to the less than comfortable parts of the process.
I wonder if it might help to view the bishop and the disciplinary process as a tool. I mean, aren’t we all really the captains of our own repentance process? Don’t we control how our hearts react as we choose to change? The real comfort….the real reconcilliation happens in the quietness of your heart as it communicates with Father in Heaven. I think you know that. If the bishop is lucky enough to be open to that, then great! But, your commitment to the church and your retaining of your testimony in terms of your journey to sanctification and peace should happen independent of what the church does or how the church fumbles over itself. Maybe Father lets all of it happen this way because each time it is a learning experience for everyone involved. I often think of Moroni out there all alone. The real church wasn’t to be found around him. It was woven into his heart. And I have needed to learn how to stand and work inside the church process, but to have the real gospel woven independently into my heart too.
I don’t know what the answers are for you now. It appears you did feel the power of forgiveness and the influence of the Lord in your life. Don’t let bishops stop your progress. Ask Father in Heaven how you should view them or use them for a wise purpose. And then get back to the business of moving on. These events are over. They don’t define you anymore. Hopefully, they have taught you to be a better person and to choose more wisely. And I think maybe you do have to do the following up and communicating to the leaders about what is working for you and what isn’t. Maybe the bishops need to you to explain your needs and why you feel frustrated and then both of you can learn and struggle together to the desired ends.
Looks like you’ve been honest and tried your best. If the legalities of the organized church are keeping you from receiving the rest of the goodness of the church, I’d say just change wards and don’t bring it up with your next bishop. When interviewed for my first temple recommend, I admitted to some drinking. The interviewer was only interested if I had reconciled with God, which I had, and that was good enough for him. You obviously had a different experience, I would be steaming too. But I would think leaving the church would be an action of someone who no longer believes in it, I see frustration with politics, not doubt. Or is there more to it? I hope you can reconcile that somehow.
The thought that came to me was something similar others have talked about on this forum…and that is that you may want to make an effort to seperate out Church from God. As weird as that sounds, they can be 2 different forces in your life (albeit overlapping and tied together). Here is why I think that:
1. You made efforts to repent, pray, fast, and seek being right with God. Did that bring you peace? Did that bring you closer to God? How is that part of the relationship?
2. Church has courts and guidelines for the acts you’ve confessed. It doesn’t seem out of line the direction of things that were done. Perhaps you want more compassion from your leaders or to feel more loved or understood, but the transactions still need to happen, regardless of how effective the leaders are in carrying it out. The other stuff can possibly be achieved in other ways. Are there others in the ward you can reach out to and talk about feeling included and cared about? (Home Teachers, EQ President, friend in the ward)?
That is not to backlash the leadership, only that sometimes we expect them to be a certain way and if they don’t behave how we want…we want to leave the church. Why?
Regardless of what others in your ward do…how do you feel about mormonism? How do you feel about God and His plan for you and your wife? What would make you feel happy (going to church or leaving it all)? I have found that despite what others do, and despite if my sunday lessons seem boring and I “wish” others would prepare lessons better, or I think the bishop “should” provide me with more guidance…I have found other ways to find peace…through reading different books (The Power of Myth”, or Fowlers Stages on Faith or other things). Now when I attend with a happy heart, I find I enjoy it and I know it is the right place for me to be with my family on Sundays.
My relationship with God is not dependent on how others treat me. My standing with His mercy is dependent on my humility and if I am willing to go through His annointed servants for forgiveness, whether I like those guys or not. I don’t have my testimony in them, I have it in Christ.
Just some food for thought from an outsider not really familiar with all the details of what you’ve gone through. I just hope you use the resources on this site to really understand what you want to be happy. God bless you.
GREAT responses so far…what a brilliant group here! I agree that it may be helpful to view your local leaders (and all the church leaders, IMO) as doing the best they can with what they’ve been given. Right or wrong, the church is mostly run by non-professionals…and there ain’t alotta training! Yes, they do the best to be inspired in their work, but that “connection” is not always perfect.
I like to approach life with two simple principles:
First, I am 100% responsible for my life. Nobody else has the power to change me — it’s completely up to me. Very Dr. Phil, I know!
Second, I have no expectations of others. Zip, Zero, Nada! Whatever I get from somebody else is a gift.
With this approach, it is difficult to be a victim. One way to look at it is that my life is completely between God and me. Of course support is helpful, but as soon as I expect somebody else to behave a certain way, I’m setting myself up for frustration.
So with that attitude, you can look at church from an angle of “does it work for me?” Am I spiritually uplifted by attending? Do the service opportunities give me purpose and meaning? Is the social structure something I enjoy? If it is a net plus, maybe it’s worth working through the issues.
~Rix
Quote:Second, I have no expectations of others. Zip, Zero, Nada! Whatever I get from somebody else is a gift.
Amen, Rix. That undersatnding is incredibly freeing.I’ve come to the conclusion, that we really are tested to the limits to see if we will really forgive and not judge a living soul even bishops who mess up. I have learned to go to church with a glad heart and see who I can help. Every single person has hard things they are going through – I go to church and no one knows what heartache I have – but I can forget it and listen and help someone through their pain. Once I thought I couldn’t go to church ever again because the heartache was so bad that I would cry constantly, but my husband encouraged me to go and the Lord blessed me, the talks were just what I needed to hear and I felt love from all the imperfect people. Love to you! victoria wrote:I’ve come to the conclusion, that we really are tested to the limits to see if we will really forgive and not judge a living soul even bishops who mess up. I have learned to go to church with a glad heart and see who I can help. Every single person has hard things they are going through – I go to church and no one knows what heartache I have – but I can forget it and listen and help someone through their pain. Once I thought I couldn’t go to church ever again because the heartache was so bad that I would cry constantly, but my husband encouraged me to go and the Lord blessed me, the talks were just what I needed to hear and I felt love from all the imperfect people. Love to you!
Thanks for this, Victoria. I have felt similar things.
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