Truth. Error. Opinion. Revelation.

One of my favorite scripture ideas comes from Jacob where he talks about how the spirit teaches things as “they really are” and as they “really will be”. And I am fairly sure that how things really are is different from what mormon culture ( at any time in history) says it is.

D&C 76: 94

94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

I agree. I am not there, yet the spirit leads me and brings me closer, as I give heed.

What if the truth isn’t what I want it to be? What if the truth doesn’t fall into my comfort zone or frame of reference? Does that mean that I am not reading the spirit right or that something inside of me is warning me?

I said in another thread, that truth is a terrible master. Not because it is ‘bad’, but because it is painful. It is painful because it is a two-edged sword, cutting away from us (other things/people) and towards us (ourselves). You cannot wield it without facing that reality. Justice is an aspect of truth. Both are very limiting, very strict. You want to hold others to that standard? Then you also must be judged by that standard. Thus, it is terrible.

Yet, it is an aspect or attribute of godliness. It is on one end of a spectrum, the opposite end being Mercy, an equal aspect of godliness. Steadfast Love. In the hebrew, the word for judgement is Geburah; the word for Steadfast Love is Chesed. They two are balanced and thus made ‘right’ by Tipareth in hebrew, “Beauty” in english. Or, metaphorically, the Sun. Even, the Son. Yes, Jews know about the Son, and his role in atonement. The ones that study their religion, anyway.

I know I have to humble myself to God and perhaps do things I don’t agree with. But I also see God teaching me to trust my instincts and my inner voice. Sometimes I don’t feel the Spirit confirm or guide, other times I do.

Same here. I was led by the spirit, once, to a very scary place after studying D&C 132. I rejected the teaching of the Spirit, and was left alone for years thereafter, for by my choice I declared that I was not ready for that light in my life. The topic was not polygamy, yet was contained in that section. Seek and ye shall find sounds pretty harmless, but it is the way to truth, and that is far from harmless for those not prepared for it. In Jewish mysticsm, they do not approach Truth or Da’at (knowledge itself) directly. They know the price. Better to live as we believe we should, and let truth distill upon us at its own pace.

Sometimes I worry that because I was born and raised in the church and in a dominant LDS environment that this more than anything has shaped my testimony. I know that can’t all be true because I know God has taught me things.

Me too.

I guess I just want to know that I am seeing things (history, doctrine, temporal state) as they really are and as they really will be, because anything less is just a waste. And I guess at the end of the day I do believe in personal revelation and faith and all the things that open ones spiritual eyes to truth.

I disagree that it is a waste. That is like saying that a life not lived perfectly is a waste. It serves a purpose. We grow and learn. We cannot be what we are not, and cannot yet endure what we shall be. Hope is the key; Hope and patience.

I not saying this very well.

It is a miracle when we speak truth and do it well. I enjoy your posts, Poppyseed.

HiJolly

by Poppyseed » 30 Jul 2009, 10:07

One of my favorite scripture ideas comes from Jacob where he talks about how the spirit teaches things as “they really are” and as they “really will be”. And I am fairly sure that how things really are is different from what mormon culture ( at any time in history) says it is.

Poppyseed, I am absolutely charmed by the idea of someone quoting mormon scripture in the first sentence, and in the second, suggesting the culture that produced the book you quoted has strayed apart from the very book you quote.

by Poppyseed » 30 Jul 2009, 10:07

One of my favorite scripture ideas comes from Jacob where he talks about how the spirit teaches things as “they really are” and as they “really will be”. And I am fairly sure that how things really are is different from what mormon culture ( at any time in history) says it is.

Poppyseed, I am absolutely charmed by the idea of someone quoting mormon scripture in the first sentence, and in the second, suggesting the culture that produced the book you quoted has strayed apart from the very book you quote.

Well, in PS’ defense, he says “mormon culture” suggesting the culture that has come as a result of said book, not necessarily the same culture that produced the book. Surely today we aren’t using peepstones to get revelation, find buried treasure etc. all of which helped produce the BoM. Even within 10 years after the BoM came forth JS was reducing use of his peepstone and other superstitious roots.

Poppyseed said….Oh…and btw I am a girlie kind.

Thank you for making me laugh in a very nice way. I enjoy yours and everyone’s point of view on these threads. They are forcing me to think deeper, grow larger, choose words more carefully, and to like the personalitys that peek through the words, thank you.

Dear Poppyseed,

I loved your post. I truly believe the scripture that we should “prove all things” and “hold fast that which is good”.

We each have many things to learn, but UNLEARNING things is also part of the process. We have to be willing to “unlearn”, forget, let go of, or abandon false notions, errors and bad habits that inevitably enter our world. I was a science major and false “facts” can even be found in science textbooks. Knowledge must be sorted, shifted, discarded, saved, refined and perfected – constantly.

Galileo Galilei was excommunicated by the Catholic Church for teaching that the earth revolved around the sun. His science “crossed the line” and his writings appeared to insult the intelligence of the Pope. As we gain more knowledge, we will constantly be confronted with new truth. Some of our old truth will be proved false and will have to be discarded. This is part of proving and testing knowledge.

The glory of God is intelligence and this is how we acquire it.

Dear Herber13,

You are absolutely right. Universal Truth is CONSTANT, but our understanding of it grows and changes. The gospel truths do not change because they are eternal.

I love the concept here, and the title speaks volumes. I think the key to the phrase, “things as they really are and as they really will be” is what kind of truth are we talking about and what kinds of things? The phrase to me refers to a worldview – seeing the world and ourselves and other people for what they/we really are. Maybe it has to do with spiritual truth or self-knowledge or psychology or science, but it could mean lots of things. Plus, it’s just one guy’s view, right? Nephi’s or Joseph Smith’s, however you look at it. Mormon culture’s worldview, BTW, is also fragmented and incomplete. No one claims to understand it all, and if they do they are full of it!

Also, part of enlightenment is to question your assumptions about your worldview and to live in the moment. To me, that’s still consistent with that statement, but about 90% or more of human beings go through life without ever questioning the assumptions associated with their worldview.