How important is the history of this church?

I think it is important. I think the story/myth we are told is just as valid and important as whatever the truth is.

When I look at the mythologized story of how the BoM and church was born I find it very symbolic and meaningful. The danger is believing it so literally, IMO. Once we see it as symbolic we can learn so much more from it—at least that is my experience. I do wish the church was equipped to take people from a literal belief to a symbolic belief.

Now, even when we look at the more literal/factual truth we have so much to learn. I find the whole thing so fascinating. It amazes me when I find some of this scriptures we don’t even realize we have that tell our church exactly what our problems are! There are scriptures that tell us we are under condemnation and that we have lost the “fulness” of the gospel. I believe those scriptures are true.

It has actually become easier for me to see how true the gospel is. I think the history is so awesome because as we grow spiritually it helps us to clearly see that we must not put our faith in humans. Our faith must be in Christ-and Christ is in each of us. Once we can stop relying on “the flesh” it is so much easier to see what comes from God and what doesn’t. At least, it has been for me.

I love history, I think it is important and can point us towards our own path. I find it all can be instructional.

This is just a thought, and a very broad brush generalization, but I think our reaction over time to learning all the un-sanitized history of the Church tells us a lot about our self image.

Example:

People start to see that Joseph Smith was not particularly good at some things, and that in a lot of normal ways, he was no better than anyone else (or better than them).

Some people get angry because Joseph was as bad a person as they are. How could anyone as bad as that have anything to say about the divine? Do you see what they are really saying? They are saying they don’t feel like a good person, and they don’t feel like they can have a connection to God.

Some people get inspired when they see that Joseph was as bad a person as they are. They might think “I am as bad a person as Joseph was, maybe even better at a lot of other things than he was. Look what he did! That’s inspirational.” This line of thinking says the person feels they are pretty much ok; and it’s quite possible they could (or do) have the same connection to God as a high-profile “prophet.”

Does the history matter? I think that was the original question. It does and it doesn’t. I like the direction people are taking this — that the history is sitting there waiting for people, waiting to take them on a journey when they find it. It is a journey to a new level of understanding. I like that hopeful view of life.

It matters for lots of reasons. I think most members of the Church or any religion, believe literally in the things they are taught. For me, it matters because to me it is a form of evidence. Ultimately, we can’t “prove” things about religion, but we can look at factual events that happened when the Church was founded. We can look at the Church has conducted itself over the last 179 years. It obviously matters to the Church leaders because they censor things that don’t put a positive spin of Joseph or any other early Mormon event. Since I personally, don’t view religion as a metaphor, the history matters a great deal. It matters that so many things have been lied about. It matters that Joseph probably wrote the BoM. It matters that Joseph probably fabricated the PoGP. I can either view a mountain of ration, empirical, factual evidence as the truth, or I can disregard it all and view things as metaphorically true; or I can view everything that isn’t positive as a falsehood, and still believe in the literal truth of the Church. For me personally, the mountain of evidence that contradicts the claims made by Prophets and apostles since the Church’s founding, up to the present day, makes the Church untrue. I don’t buy into the idea that they can get so many things wrong, and lie about so much, and have it still be true. More power to you if the metaphorical truth helps. I guess my main point is that it matters depending on the person.

That’s sad…and so typical of the attitude that prevails with those of us who have objectionably studied early Church history…

Bruce, I don’t intend to offend anyone. I’m sorry you find my views “sad”. I’ve never met a fundamentalist Mormon in person. If you find happiness in your views, more power to ya. You must have a lot of faith to so confidently overlook the history the way you do. I’m sure from your perspective, or other “faithful” Mormons, I’ve got a serious case of “Korihorness”. At this point in my life, I feel like faith is a cop out if there isn’t good evidence to support something. I have a certain level of faith in the scientific method–meaning, I take the 5 senses at face value, but I feel like there is good evidence for that. I have an uncle who likes to say we all have “spiritual IQ’s”; right now, I must have a low one. My natural aptitude/disposition towards things, especially religion, is take look for literal truths, and that hasn’t served me well since I came across Quinn/Bushman. Maybe that just indicates I’ve always lacked faith, but if that’s the case, so be it. For some, like my wife, the history doesn’t matter one bit. She doesn’t like to hear negative things, she doesn’t care to study the history; it’s all about how she feels. I respect her for that, and I appreciate that she respects how I work.

I think your gut feeling can really be altered when you receive a deeper view of things. I always felt great about the church while growing up. When, in high school, I started having some trouble with a couple of the tougher issues, I put on my blinders and let myself be troubled, but I still felt good about the church. It was only when I took the effort to research and further my understanding of these issue in order to reconcile them, that I was able to break through and be a bit more honest with myself. Who knows where that will land me next year or next decade, the only thing I do know is that my gut feeling is a heck more guilt-free for having an honest look at why I felt troubled in the first place. God does not cast doubt on the apathetic. And I don’t think we are questioning God, just man’s interpretation of His will. History matters.

And I don’t think we are questioning God, just man’s interpretation of His will.

Great way of putting this!

And I don’t think we are questioning God, just man’s interpretation of His will.

Amen! You should get a prize.