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August 1, 2009 at 11:21 pm #204206
Anonymous
GuestMW, That strikes me as a kind of an orgy of fear. And it feels like you’re engaging in it in an effort to suggest (or compel) the reader to leave Mormonism.
Some may need to do so, to escape fear, but that is only if they fail to understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I have met people who spent years in the Church and never caught the vision of god’s goodness —- but they are far fewer, in my experience, than those who learned to love and to hope in Christ WITHIN the Church.
Faith driveth away all fear. MW, have faith in Christ, and none of these need consume you. Whether you’re Mormon or not.
HiJolly
August 2, 2009 at 12:10 am #220571Anonymous
GuestSadly, there is a lot of fear in my LDS friends. We have forgotten the grace of God. Every lesson is on obedience and works. I hear in class frequently that people are afraid of judgement day. Makes me sad. I hope I can help people to feel God’s mercy. i agree with HiJolly that the gospel of Jesus Christ clearly teaches faith and mercy, love and hope.
You are right that the church will change and adapt. It always has and it always will.
August 2, 2009 at 12:39 am #220572Anonymous
GuestHiJolly wrote:Faith driveth away all fear. MW, have faith in Christ, and none of these need consume you. Whether you’re Mormon or not.
AMEN
August 2, 2009 at 1:41 am #220573Anonymous
Guesti do think many of the church’s teachings are fear based, but the the gospel’s message is one of hope and love….sometimes we have to go elsewhere to get the message of Christ because the fear based thinking in the church is so strong or tends to dominate…that has been my experience. So in answer to your question, I would have to say yes; but it is not integral to the message of Christ or the good news. I think of the church and the gospel as two different things, I don’t think they are one in the same. August 2, 2009 at 2:11 am #220574Anonymous
GuestI’ve gotta agree with others especially just me and lady wisdom. The church is fear-based, the gospel of Christ is hope/love based. I would guess most of us here are here for more or less this exact reason: the church has not demonstrated an ability to deliver the gospel message satisfactorily enough over time, and now we are figuring out how to stay in the church while getting that satisfaction from many other places (as well as the little or lot that the church does deliver).
As to the question, I think this was a little exchange on another thread, but hawkgrrl pointed out that all organizations have this type structure, using fear as a primary method of cohesion/function. Think politics: fear is number one tool used. Think of your job: most of us have felt our livelihood threatened by a manager/supervisor at some point. Think of your parents: easy to use fear to coerce behavior.
It’s human nature, I suppose, but, of course, you hope that your religion is above that. Hence the need for a forum called staylds.com.
August 2, 2009 at 2:49 am #220575Anonymous
Guestjust me wrote:
I hope I can help people to feel God’s mercy. i agree with HiJolly that the gospel of Jesus Christ clearly teaches faith and mercy, love and hope.You are right that the church will change and adapt. It always has and it always will.
Ditto.
August 2, 2009 at 7:51 pm #220576Anonymous
GuestWhat other church do people think they are going to go to escape fear and judgment-based methodology? *boggles* The LDS Church doesn’t even have a major market share in that arena of ideas. August 3, 2009 at 1:24 am #220577Anonymous
GuestMaybe I am just weird, but I don’t see a lot of fear based teaching in my wards. I see most teachers and words from the brethren at GC to be heavily weighted on the joy, happiness, mercy, etc side of things. But I don’t think anyone can read and understand the scriptures without coming away a little sobered at times — which I think is good. We all need a good reminder not to justify our sins because God is full of love. I do however see parents or perhaps counsel from bishops laced with coersive fear when perhaps a hopeful perspective might work better. I tend to think that this is just human frailty. And then again, maybe a wake up call is needed from time to time. God will not be mocked. I mean we hope in Christ, but we are all still learning what that means at lots of different levels. I mean, fear is part of the earth life deal. Are you really telling me that any of us has mastered fear?
August 3, 2009 at 2:54 am #220578Anonymous
GuestHere in the bible belt south, you can’t drive a mile or two without passing a church. They all have a sign out front with a cliche’ saying that gets changed by the pastor every couple weeks. Most of them have a clear message — you are going to burn in hell for all eternity if you don’t get with the program…
August 3, 2009 at 3:22 am #220579Anonymous
GuestI think fear is a big part of the human condition. People fear different things, but everyone fears something. There are some fears that are considered innate to all humans (from an internet site): – death
– embarrassment
– loss of love
– rejection
– falling (heights)
An acronym for fear that I’ve heard before is False Evidence Appearing Real. Of course, fear is healthy if there is a real danger, and fear can cause us to protect ourselves from it.
August 3, 2009 at 8:35 pm #220580Anonymous
GuestWow…great posts here! Yes, I think fear is at the root of most dogmatic religions. It was taught by our parents, them by theirs, etc…and it’s hard to break the cycle. I remember so many times when my kids were young using the same fear-based tactics my parents used on me…then later thinking “that’s not what I should have done! That was my dad talking!” Basically, Mormonism came from traditional Christianity. Even if one believes in Joseph’s restoration claim, I doubt anybody would argue that he utilized many protestant teachings and cultural processes. And if we go back further, there’s the good ole inquisitions — how’s that for fear-based!
I think if we look at what Jesus actually taught, using the gnostic gospels particularly, he was much more loving than “his” religions that followed. His message was of love and forgiveness. But like my parenting mistakes, I’m sure our lay leadership makes a few of the same kinds of mistakes!
August 3, 2009 at 9:11 pm #220581Anonymous
GuestInteresting thread… Without getting overly philosophical, I think humans have a mind that cannot concieve of it’s own non-existance.
Now, do we invent spirituality, religion, afterlifes, etc. to deal with this? ….or does the fact that an afterlife exists cause the mind to have this condition?
August 3, 2009 at 9:26 pm #220582Anonymous
GuestBruce in Montana wrote:Interesting thread…
Without getting overly philosophical, I think humans have a mind that cannot concieve of it’s own non-existance.
Now, do we invent spirituality, religion, afterlifes, etc. to deal with this? ….or does the fact that an afterlife exists cause the mind to have this condition?
I love it!
“A History of God” by Karen Armstrong is an interesting read that leads one to believe the former. Without a doubt, religions have evolved dramatically as science has shown what really causes lightning, earthquakes, etc….events that were certain to have been expressions of “God” previously.
August 3, 2009 at 9:40 pm #220583Anonymous
GuestBruce in Montana wrote:Without getting overly philosophical, I think humans have a mind that cannot concieve of it’s own non-existance.
Now, do we invent spirituality, religion, afterlifes, etc. to deal with this? ….or does the fact that an afterlife exists cause the mind to have this condition?
Love it too
. I just love having my mind bent into a pretzel, like the cerebral version of a body builder grunting “feel the burn!” /flex. Which is probably much more common among people like us than the general population.
I’ll take it one step further, why stop there? muahahaha.
Seeing that the human condition is such that we do not comfortably tolerate the thought of our own non-existence, and we make up religion to deal with this, or we are in fact making up a story to express a true eternal nature to our being …
either way, should we stop it?
Because if we become so clever as to figure it out and deny this impulse, we are going against our biology or we are going against our divine nature. It’s lose-lose regardless. We are trapped in the paradox of our existence.
August 3, 2009 at 10:00 pm #220584Anonymous
GuestWhen I hear fear-mongering, I always try to hear what the individual is personally afraid of – they are always afraid of something that is personal to them: – the older we get, the more we fear change because we are invested in the past. Younger people often seek change to redefine the world they way they want it. For older people, change can be a threat to their security, their expectations, and what is expected of them.
– people fear rejection. They don’t want to be seen as different or “unfit” so they say the “right” things, even if that makes them inauthentic.
– wealthy people fear the loss of control over their financial security, especially if they have ever experienced want and have created that security they now enjoy.
– jealousy is an example of people who fear loss of love. A MIL who is possessive of her son or a husband who is jealous of his wife’s male friends are examples.
While it’s natural to fear, and it can be healthy if the threat is real, Buddhism teaches that detachment is the beginning of enlightenment. You have to get to the point where you hold on to less and less “stuff” as being yours, where you fear less. As they say, “When you love someone set them free” – the same goes for whatever you fear losing. To me, that is a profound spiritual concept, one that 90% of human beings fail to grasp in this lifetime.
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