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Hello any who read this. This is my intro with foot notes I’m a woman. I’m a life long member of the church. I was born and raised in Utah valley in a small family of liberal Mormons.
I label myself LDS, but I also consider myself Buddhist. As my darling husband says “Christ lets us live forever. Buddha helps us be okay with it”. I have struggled with “the Church” my whole life*. I love the Gospel, but honestly think that some of the bureaucracy of “the Church” is not in line with it. ^ I think our Heavenly Parents weep at the words we put in their mouths, the Lord too. I love the Lord, but not the Suits and that is my struggle. I waver between staying and leaving the Church because of the administration**. I and my family have had a lot of ugly things happen because of the leadership… including GAs.
My education is in Literature, Fine Art/ Illustration, and technical theater (costuming). I have earned a Masters Degree in Library Science and am hoping to earn another in English someday. I spent a number of years working for an art museum, but I have now quit work. I spend my time raising my lovely daughter, helping my HD (a Chemistry teacher) and learning all the little talents I’ve always wanted to. Lacemaking, Book Binding/book conservation, growing roses, perfecting my orange rolls, mask making, and working on my art. I read A LOT. I love fantasy and poetry.
My HD is not LDS, but he is Christian. I am the wife in a mixed race home (Japanese American). A double whammy in Utah. Add to it that we only have one kid and do not plan to have any others and I’m basically an outcast. My father was of pioneer stalk. Great Granddad carved the ball that Moroni stands on at the SL Temple and they also helped build the Manti temple. My mother is a convert. She is from the Mt. Hood area of Oregon. Her people are from The South . . . Cherokee and Confederates. I bet that’s another whammy here in Utah *laugh* I served a mission in Georgia – the same mission my father served in. It was the turning point of my faith. I felt dirty do for serving the Lord in such an underhanded manipulative way.^^
I’m a Independent politically, but usually vote Dem. Did I mention I’m an outcast in Utah. Lost track of how often my Obama sign got pulled out of my lawn.
I am a feminist, but I don’t hate men. I love them and feel that Patriarchy is as hurtful to them as it is to women.*** I do not support Matriarchy either. I believe that the true order of the world and the Gospel is equality and I feel that someday in the Church women will be acknowledge as having their own form of Priestesshood. We are anointed Queens and Priestesses. Even in Christ’s day there were Prophetesses and I feel very strongly that this is vital to the world. I’m NOT saying women should “hold the priesthood” we have our own power given us by our Heavenly Parents that comes with being woman – it doesn’t have to be given to us by a “holder” of the order. My DH says that I must be feeling the same emotions as the Blacks did before getting the Priesthood. In the Church, but not a partner in it. I have no voice.
One thing that I believe strongly about is the need to speak of Heavenly Mother more. To help the women of the world know that there is a Divine Mother and that they are NOT secondary to male divinity. I feel that to make YW say “I am a daughter of a Heavenly Father…” is to subjugate them. It is hypocritical to to tell them that they are equal, yet force them into defining themselves only through their relationships to men. It SHOULD read “I am a daughter of Heavenly Parents who love us and I love Them”. And the RS should have something similar that reminds us that we have a Mother in Heaven and that we should strive to be like Her!
Getting off the Soap Box now. thank you.
* When made Mia Maid Pres. at my first BYC I listened to them go on and on about the next Scouting camp out. I was raised in the Girl Scouts and 4H and when the Bishop asked if I had any questions I said, “why do the boys get to go on camp outs all the time and the girls only get to go once for a week with the stake?” They had no answer. Let me add that I had a number of horrific experiance at girls camp that attributed to my depression and thoughts of suiside at that age. I am NOT depressed now.
^A Bishop humiliated my NM husband at our daughters blessing in my fathers home in front of my whole family. He then lectured us about obedience before participating in the blessing ( I had not invited him to be a part of the circle!). When I and my DH got home he basically told me that he wouldn’t support our daughter being baptized into the LDS church and that he has no interest in joining ever. The bishop undid 10 plus years of my teaching about the good qualities of the Church. All because my DH wasn’t worthy enough to hold our 6 month old daught on his lap while she recived a blessing from my father. He wasn’t going to be in the circle he understood that. I learned later that MY bishop would have allowed it. I live and learn.
**DO NOT GET ME STARTED ABOUT THE BISHOP’S HANDBOOK – leadership for dummies. I also think it is wrong to not allow member to see and read it as it controls so much of their lives.
^^ Missionaries are taught to be manipulative. To twist peoples words and push them into baptism without their really understanding. I think boys shouldn’t go until they are 20 and have grown up! I left the church for a while after this.
*** read Dance of the Dissident Daughter by Sue Monk Kidd
Hi. You sound like someone I would love to be friends with! I would love to pepper you with questions and then sit and listen long while enjoying one of your orange rolls!
I was raised in Utah Valley as well…..I guess I can say I survived. And I do have similar concerns with the churches youth programs for the same reasons..at least how it was in the 80’s in Utah. My whole little pack of YW went to our bishop and asked why the scouts got to go hiking, swimming, canoeing, waterskiing, snow cave overnighters, etc etc etc….and we got to learn to knit and go to camp for four days once a year. The more personal part of the story was that my father was very immersed in this culture at the time. He and his sons…..and all the stuff they did together. I am prolly more like my dad than anyone in my family. Sad how some father daughter relationships turn out. I don’t think I have ever rightly oriented myself and that was years ago. You call it “suits”. I call it “the good ole boys club”.
I will say though that I think the church realized at least part of the error. They did change the way budgets worked and they did send down specific letters saying that no one should be left out of the church because they don’t have money to participate. I think this in and of itself helped to level the playing field. But I still see inequity. I get why the church needs an activity arm for the youth but my daughters don’t get merit badges and ceremonies where everyone tells them how awesome they are because they can tie knots! I think the church is inching forward. Finally the activity days is open for eight year olds instead of just 11 yrs. But even that happens twice a month while scouts continues on weekly. But no one comes to cheer on the girls! No one tells them they are awesome thru acheivement. We just do ‘activities’. Not that I don’t appreciate activities. I just wish the boys stuff felt more like that. Or I wish that they girls had a similar training. I mean, don’t mom’s need to know first aid and tent making and all that stuff too?
Ok….enough of that spontaneous rant! Goodness. where did that come from?
Anyway…..love this comment….
Quote:“Christ lets us live forever. Buddha helps us be okay with it”
Sometimes I think Buddha and Christ would really get along.
Antiquarian- Welcome to the site. I hope you can find a place where you can freely discuss the church in a respectful, honest, and open way. Understanding the leaders of the church is a very difficult task, not really made easier by the united front they manifest to us. Most of us don’t have the experience of having run a massive 13 million member organization, so it is difficult to know what we might really do. In any case, we discuss the brethren and their role quite frequently, so I hope you can gain some perspective on the issue.
My only real qualm with your post is where you mention the part about missionaries being taught to be manipulative. I was in the MTC in 1999, so unless things have drastically changed in 10 years (meaning a complete 180 degree turn), I must completely disagree with you. I was never taught to be manipulative, indeed, I was taught to be the opposite. If some missionaries are manipulative, it is likely a complex issue, but the primary blame rests with the missionary. I repeat, there is no institutional teaching of missionaries to be manipulative to my knowledge.
Having said this, I do agree that they can be pushy sometimes, and I definitely agree that new members get baptized without really understanding the church, its claims, and its history. I do think this is problematic, and have written about it in great length here
http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=302http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=302” class=”bbcode_url”> Poppyseed wrote:Anyway…..love this comment….
Quote:“Christ lets us live forever. Buddha helps us be okay with it”
Sometimes I think Buddha and Christ would really get along.
I’m having a statue made for my garden where Jesus is embracing Buddha. I really see their teachings as one and the same.
Welcome, Antiquarian! I love how your first statement was “I’m a woman”.
From the first, that was clear, helped along with your gender-oriented dialog!
Well, I have enjoyed your posts though it does bug me a bit to hear you describe LDS male leaders as ‘suits’ —- but I’ll get over it. I have been singularly blessed by wonderful ‘suits’ my whole life long, but I know they can be as bad (or worse) than what you have described.
But don’t let me toss a wet blanket out— you are welcome here, and please continue to offer your comments!
HiJolly
Hi Antiquarian! Am I glad you came along and introduced yourself, I’ve been the newbie on the intro board for several days and feeling a bit lonely. Having worked myself about half way out of the black hole of “can this be the true gospel if …..” (you can insert any number of things including women and the priesthood, peep stones, Joseph Smith’s discernment of character, polyandry etc.) I can appreciate your situation and your sense of being outside of it all. As a convert at 20 years old I may have an advantage over you in that I still have a very vivid memory of the personal revelations that lead me into the church in the first place and along with other spiritual experiences I know that I can’t walk away from them, I will be a Mormon whether I go to church on Sunday or not.
At this stage of my working it all out “the organization” (your “suits”) is also my key problem, it is hard for me, for example, to talk about the Facilities people without starting to steam over autocratic, beaurocratic, heavy handed decision making that really affects life (for example putting in a Mother’s room in our Chapel that isn’t much bigger than a postage stamp, no windows, no room for a nice chair, barely enough room for a counter to change a baby AND this was a replacement for the small classroom that had formerly been theirs to use but without any sink — arrgggggggggggg). You need to keep in mind that I am a 60ish man who never had children (you want to talk about being shunned and pushed into the corner of the Ward sometime I am up for it) and all of this is so obvious to me why should the Facilities people get to run roughshod over everyone including Stake Presidents??????????
We’ll talk more about the organization I am sure, no need to rant here (I am saving a real rant for the what I consider to be the faceless “Correlation committee” that I think has destroyed — yes destroyed is the word I am chosing consciously — learning in the Church and replaced it with indoctrination.
I would like to offer another point of view on this missionary issue, jmb said:
Quote:I was never taught to be manipulative, indeed, I was taught to be the opposite. If some missionaries are manipulative, it is likely a complex issue, but the primary blame rests with the missionary. I repeat, there is no institutional teaching of missionaries to be manipulative to my knowledge.
John Dehlin did an inteview with Dr. Ted Lyon (who is either still the President of the Chilean temple or just back) which is available here on the Stay LDS site but here is the direct link to the first podcast:
http://www.staylds.com/?p=136 where Ted Lyon who has been mission president himself sees that most of the overzealous, pushy missionary tactics come from a Mission President wanting to do the best they can and perhaps make a name for themselves in the Church. There are 3 parts to the interview and it is a great listen and helps to get things into perspective.On the very good side the current missionary program using
Preach My Gospelexplicitly tells missionaries to NOT set goals based on getting a certain number of baptisms but to only set goals on what they have the free agency to affect which is their own behavior. Preach My Gospelalso explicitly tells them to seek the Spirit in a much more tangible way. Anyway, enough for right now, welcome, welcome, I look forward to sharing with you.
Just a brief note to antiquarian to say welcome. I’ve been on board but a short time, but find it mostly a welcoming place. I loved your reference to Buddhism. I’m currently visiting a son who has taken a new job in Santa Fe (wonderful city). He is house sitting for three months, looking for his own ‘adobe’ to call home. The place we are staying in is all about Buddhism. The wall paintings, the statues, the books and pray mats… I have loved every minute of it, emersed in a different culture. I will leave here with a new appreciation of paths people use going up the mountain. Here in Santa Fe, the mountains are especially grand! STAYLDS smoothes a few places on the trail. Welcome, antiquarian!! Love that you’re here with us! 
Welcome, welcome!!!!
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