Sorry Charlie, the Church doesn’t want tuna with good taste

Rix, maybe you should be flattered that you were branded a “defender” of the church… 😆 😈 😆

@primary:

good to hear from you again, I hadn’t seen your name in awhile.

Also, I think I get what Rix is saying. It’s like the opposite of that old Groucho Marx quote: “I wouldn’t belong to a club that would have me as a member”.

I think it’s a self-reinforcing issue. Everyone wants to “look” good, “look” successful, so they want to belong to an organization that matches those values. I know it’s super-cynical to say, but I doubt anyone could truly argue with the fact that the church leadership and members are obsessed with image. (not that that’s a bad thing )

Another digression: I use the stupid saying: “I don’t care what you call me, just don’t call me late to dinner.” I think you could say the same in the church and I don’t know if this is the brethren, the members or the culture but you’d change it to: “I don’t care what you say about me, just don’t say anything negative.”

The mental acrobatics in that FoxNews interview with the church’s pr from last year is a good example.

So I would ask again: What is most important to you, that you think well, or that you think well of the Church?

Yes.

I mean, 42.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Obviously, like Rix, I have no dog in this fight. (Cliche day today?!?) I mean, I have no interest in the image of the church at any level whatsoever, in perpetuity throughout the universe.

I believe passionately that it wants both – in the same bodies. What it doesn’t want, imo, is a polarization or separation of the two – where one takes over and dominates the other.

There ALWAYS will be tension between individuality and community in any organization that grows. EVERY exceptional orchestra, to hearken to Elder Wirthlin’s wonderful analogy, simply must have piccolos AND oboes AND trumpets AND clarinets AND drums AND . . . I think his “Concern for the One” was a direct and open acknowledgment that one strident voice can dominate a discussion – and that such a situation is not good. It says we NEED to have those who feel alienated among us not being alienated any longer. Frankly, I’ve heard a lot of similar messages from multiple apostles lately. I am fairly certain Elder Anderson will carry that torch, and I think Elder Cook also will. I KNOW personally that one of the other higher ranking apostles wants deeply to see the tent broaden, and I’m sure that feeling is shared by others. It’s just SO hard to get that message understood and applied at the individual ward level.

I try to think well, but I also try to think well of the organization and its members. It really isn’t all that hard when I refuse to take things personally and try to just love them. Some try to rock the boat (which, really, is stupid if you think seriously about that image and how people who feel frightened of drowning naturally react); I simply try to help point out ways to avoid the rocks I think I see, without insisting on grabbing the wheel or the oars. I’m not fighting ANYTHING or ANYONE, so (almost) nobody takes what I say as an assault or a complaint.

I try to think well, but I also try to think well of the organization and its members. It really isn’t all that hard when I refuse to take things personally and try to just love them. Some try to rock the boat (which, really, is stupid if you think seriously about that image and how people who feel frightened of drowning naturally react); I simply try to help point out ways to avoid the rocks I think I see, without insisting on grabbing the wheel or the oars. I’m not fighting ANYTHING or ANYONE, so (almost) nobody takes what I say as an assault or a complaint.

Wow, Ray. I really like this!

I appreciate everyone’s comments: hello Swimordie, thanks for the analogy Ray, we seem on the same page, Bill, and justme, you are precise and cogent, Rix and Heber13 prompted me to steer this way:

Which of the following terminology is more readily recognized as Mormon? (it’s multiple choice, pick only one)

a.) Free Thinkers

b.) Free Agency

c.) Free Inquiry

Then think back to something Rix stated on his first response:

So if you, as a member feel it doesn’t provide these resources effectively, you leave.

If your answer to the quiz was (b) then often times the first response to a serious question that you get from fellow members, or leaders is that you are free to leave. And, of course, that is true but it doesn’t help if one is interested in the pursuit of truth. Pursuit of happiness- perhaps: but not forensic pursuit of “truth.”

(I dare pick on you Rix, because it looks like you can take it. At least according to Swimordie)

Heber13. Even though the Book of Mormon criticizes the Jews for looking beyond the “mark” yet they have survived and thrived beyond any other people. Maybe that is because they do look beyond what markers are placed before them.

One of the counselors in our bishopric talked in combined PH/RS about being raised by a twice-divorced, single mother who worked two jobs to support her four children. He talked about how many different configurations make up “families” these days. It was a wonderful, inclusive, beautiful address.

There’s a TON of that in the Church – and a TON of other approaches that don’t include like his did. After all, as has been said, “the Church” is the compilation of its members at all levels.

All in all, I had a delicious tuna casserole today. That doesn’t always happen, but it happens more often, I think, for those who aren’t as picky in their eating habits as others. There is a lot of power in a cafeteria approach, but sometimes those of us who want to eat our own buffet end up being just as picky as those who eat the same things each day that are different than our “smorgasbord”. (Really, it’s not much of a smorgasbord if someone eats and avoids the same things every meal.)