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Hi Everyone, I just got back from San Antonio Texas to visit my daughter for two weeks. She begged me to come as she was having martial problems. She is 34, has two teenage boys, and a 1 year old daughter. She was raised Mormon but left the church when she was 17. She was a very rebellious child growing up. We think she is bi-polar but she will not go and be tested. She had a baby out of wedlock at 16 and lived with the father for a year and then they broke up. She married another guy at 19 and had a second son with him. He was baptist and brought her to Christ after she said the “Sinners Prayer.” After 5 years of marriage she divorced and became a stripper to support her self and two boys. I was so worried about her and prayed everyday for her. She finally left stripping and met a wonderful Christian man who she has been married to the past 9 years. They are very active in Pastor Haggi’s Cornerstone Church. I have attended church with them and it has many good things there and has been good for her. Ever since I visited her during the open house of the San Antonio Temple and her pastor spread the word on how evil Mormonism is, she thinks she has to get her parents out of this devilish cult. Well, these last two weeks I have spent with her, I cooked, cleaned, took care of the 1 year old, and tried to lighten her burdern so she could work out the problems with her husband. Her teenage boys love me and we had a great time. She was able to work out things with her husband and all was going well, when she and her husband asked if they could talk to me for an hour about the “Trinity.” I listened patiently as they pulled out scripture after scripture supporting the 3 in one concept. Then my daughter basically told me that unless I believe in the evangelical ‘Trinity’ of Jesus being God and the 3 in one theory, I was going to hell.
I kindly thanked them for caring enough to want to help me see the light, but I had good Biblical support for my belief in 3 separate beings. I later emailed them the following note:
Dear daughter and (her husband),Here is some information on the ‘Trinity’ from another perspective. I am glad you had the courage and desire to discuss your beliefs with me last night. Having been a missionary, I understand how difficult it is to discuss religion with people. It is especially sensitive with family members because they can become upset. Religion and politics are things people feel very strongly about and so it can be a very emotional experience.
Faith is always a difficult topic because people interpret things differently and have different personal experiences. When people can be open minded, respectful, rational, and care about basing their lives on truth and reality, good communication can happen. I think we are good people who want to live by correct principles and so I thought we did very well last night.
I agree with you that having a correct understanding about the nature of God is important. We cannot become Christlike if we do not know what Christ is like for example. Believing in a God who is merciful and just, honest and loving are important in building trust in Him. You mentioned Tony how you were raised Catholic and were an altar boy. That you had strong belief in your faith but came to recognize that some of the teachings you were taught did not seem right so you changed your beliefs. This is mature and healthy thinking. Your dad was raised Catholic as well and some of their teachings seemed irrational and wrong to him as well. It made God and religion seem ridiculous to your dad. The Bible says that “now we see through a glass darkly, but when He comes we will know for sure.” So, for now we can share what we have learned with each other and pray about it. God looketh upon the heart of man and He knows are our hearts are sincere and good, so will guide us to all truth.
The scriptures I showed you last night are the following, in case you don’t have them:
Luke 18: 18-19 -Jesus was told he was good and he said, “Why call me good when only God the Father is good.”
John 14: 28- …If ye loved me, ye would rejoice because I said, I go unto the Father; for my Father is greater than I.”
Acts. 7: 55-56 But he being full of the Holy Ghost looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesu standing on th right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”
There are many more, but let this suffice for now.
Like I said before, it just makes more scense that a son would act, talk, and look like his Father but not be the father. The Nicene creed talks about a God without body, parts, or passions and can fill the whole universive but be small enough to be in your heart. This is the best describtion of nothing I have read. God talks about his passions such as jealousy, and the physical resurrection.
Anyway, read the things below and see what you think. I will be happy to read your things and study them. I think it is good to be challenged in our thinking because it can help us analyize better what we believe. Your dad and I would be glad to exchange emails on what we think. The main thing is that we can be respectful.
Love, Mom
My question to you all is: “Do you have good info about the “Trinity’ coming about from the Nicene Creed and was not always taught as the 3 in one concept or any other scriptures that could help me show my daughter and son in law that we are not going to hell?
Bridget
I think a more helpful approach is to not get defensive about doctrinal issues, and deal with the family diversity. Can she/they really love and respect you (and vice versa) if you believe different things? I find stage three-ers to be stuck in dogma. Most religious zealots are there. In my mind, and particularly after you gave us a bit of her history, I don’t think you will ever win a doctrinal argument with her…and it will just serve as an issue to divide you. Work on the commonalities you have, love her as an EV, and revel in her happiness she has found there.
Thanks Rix….I think you may be right. She will not change her thinking because of any rational reasons. Just loving her is best. Bridget Elder Anderson talked in his first GC address (if I remember correctly) about his gratitude for the man who cared enough to talk with him sincerely but respectfully about his eternal welfare. I think that’s a wonderful attitude to take.
I agree with Rix and Ray. A pissing match will give you short-term bladder relief but in the end, nothing will have changed except the new pee stain.
I just made that up. (it sounds provincial though, doesn’t it?
😳 )Swimordie, You are funny! It is just frustrating to be handed so much anti-Mormon stuff by your kids and them telling you, you are going to hell when what they offer, make even less sense to me. Yet they think it is so logical.
Hi Bridget I think that you have done a great job with your daughter and the fact that you have supported her and loved her through a very difficult time is amazing (I have known far too many “good” Mormon mothers who gave up on “the one” in order to maintain the rest of their family, a sad situation and an application of “tough love” which in general I have always found to be simply wrong).
I haven’t got it at this point but will go and find it and give you the reference but there is a very good book on how Greek philosophy basically hijacked the Christian message from the 2nd to 4th centuries AD. The idea of the immaterial God is straight out of Greek philosophy and comes through Plato strongly. So I will find that and post here again in the next day or two.
However, I don’t think that such information should be presented to your daughter and her husband, it won’t have much traction because the Trinitarian idea has become so wound up with Evangelical’s committment to an inerrant Bible, so you would have that battle to fight as well. However the info might be of interest to you and of some help in understanding how it all got to this point.
Hey Bill, Thank you sooo much for your support and kind words. My daughter is a zealot and goes to extremes all the time. She is a Vegan now with no meat, eggs, or dairy. My grandsons were so happy that I fixed normal meals for them. When I left, my grandsons called me and said that their mom has reverted back to being a tyrant again and is so unreasonable. It is hard for me to watch and I cannot interfere in their parenting even though I think they are really wrong sometimes. They have to say “Yes Mamm, and Yes Sir and are like drill sargents to the kids. They never feel safe to open up about their real feelings. My oldest son and youngest son are ticked off at their sister for telling me I will go to hell over the trinity. So, just finding common ground and being loving is best right now.
I would like the infor for my own information though. So, thank you. Bridget
swimordie wrote:
A pissing match will give you short-term bladder relief but in the end, nothing will have changed except the new pee stain.
(wiping coffee stain off the monitor…) Now THAT was good!!!
😆 
😆 😆 Bill Atkinson wrote:…Greek philosophy basically hijacked the Christian message from the 2nd to 4th centuries AD….
…and Christians borrowed most of their myths from Pagans and the Egyptians, etc., etc…
It’s all borrowed from somebody, so who’s to say what really happened??? I’ve said before, but a favorite phrase of mine from Markus Borg:
“The Bible is true, and some of it happened.”
Why does it matter so much to evangelicals that you believe in the right trinity and that God would condmen you to hell for it. When I was in the 7th Day Adventist church for two years they believed the Mark of the Beast was whether you worshipped on the true Sabbath (Saturday) and only those who worhsipped on that day could be saved. So, the Chinese underground Christian who can only get together on a Tuesday evening to worship are condmened to hell? I thought that Christ was constantly trying to teach the spirit of the law over the letter? To be fair, bridget, that is true of all religionists who take an exclusive position – and, even with Mormonism’s inclusive view of kingdoms of glory, there are LDS members who say things that aren’t very different in tone and scorn. It’s sad, but this isn’t an evangelical issue at heart. Good point Ray! So, how do you distinquish between the letter of the law and spirit of the law in regards to keeping you from exhaltation? I remember when I was on a missionary split with two elders going door to door in Austria. The two elders testified to this woman at the door that this was the true church and unless she accepted it, she could not be with her husband in the next life. When the lady told them off and slammed the door in our face, these two elders had the nerve to say, “Well, she had her chance.” I was so upset and told those elders, “Until a person has had the opportunity to hear the entire gospel of Jesus Christ, recognized it as true, and then accepts or rejects it, they have not had their chance. I asked them how they would like their chance to have been by some JW’s who came to the door and you rejected them? My response, bridget, would be read what I just posted about “Be Ye Therefore Perfect”. Just read it and it was great. Thank you for your insights.
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