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My story. I was born and raised in the Church. My parents were converted while they were younger and married in the temple. I have been active all my life. I didn’t have a “testimony” until I was 15 and started studying the BoM for myself. I was an intellectual kid and always thought that the Joseph Smith story was too farfetched to be possible. As I studied the BoM at 15, I felt the HG and chose to believe in the BoM and pretty much the whole church package. I had many more spiritual experiences over the years that grounded me in the church.
About a year and a half ago, my best friend told me that he was gay and that he had been keeping his life a secret from me for the last couple years. I’m pretty liberal so I was fine with him being gay. Within a couple months, I started to realize that I wasn’t trusting church stuff that I had put my faith in. I think that because my friend whom I trusted had been lying to me about stuff, it shook my trust in the church. I noticed more and more things that I had accepted as true because they were part of the church package, but that I had no “testimony” that they were true. Things like the three degrees of glory, the Second Coming and ensuing events, some divine manifestations, etc., I could no longer say that I believed in them.
Mormons like buildings as metaphors. What I had chosen to believe had my spiritual experiences with the BoM as the foundation. Other spiritual experiences built up on that. And then all this superfluous junk stuff that I went ahead and added to my beliefs without spiritual confirmation. All of the junk aspects of what was my testimony have been stripped away. Now I am only left with what the HG has revealed to me.
While going through this experience and since, church meetings have been very difficult for me. At first, I felt completely alone. It seemed like everyone around me was fine believing in things that they didn’t truly have a testimony of. I talked to everyone who would listen to me. Friends, family, my bishop, non-mormons, etc. I eventually realized that many people had difficulty with church. Not many had gone through what I had, but each person has their own difficulties. I am single and in a singles ward and after a bit, it seemed like 40% of my ward had fairly profound testimony concerns. Many expressed feeling isolated because of their less than rock solid testimonies. After some months, church became less of an ordeal each week, but it’s still not easy.
Going through this experience of having my beliefs stripped to the core ended up being is very important to me. I felt like for the first time I was exercising real faith. Sticking with church was not easy. Each week it felt like what was left of my testimony was being beat up. I kept going because I chose to believe that it would get better. I have become very aware of the choices that I am making. What I choose to believe in, what “commandments” I choose to follow, what I choose to do with my time, etc. With that awareness came the feeling like I was exercising real faith.
Church still isn’t easy, but I persist. I fulfill my callings, work in the temple, I do pretty much all the good things that I did before. The most profound things that I learned from my experience so far is that, (1) many people throughout the church have profound testimony concerns; we are not alone, (2) for me, I need to rely on the Holy Ghost to accept something as true, (3) it’s okay that I don’t choose to believe in everything that the church teaches, (4) real exercising of faith comes from awareness of choice.
I wish that the environment of church would evolve to where people could express doubts openly. I push what for many are the boundaries of dissention in church. I do it so that anyone else who might feel alone won’t have to. I like this forum a lot. I think it can do a lot of good for many people.
Welcome Nightwalden and thank you for sharing your story. I have had a fairly similar spiritual journey in that I have had some very powerful spiritual experiences and testimonies from the the Holy Ghost that I cannot walk away from, they make me a Mormon with faith in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith (flawed though he was) and the entire messy package. For what it is worth it is possible to put things back together again and tolerate the difficulties that you have trouble resolving. If you haven’t already explored James Fowler and his stages of faith yet you should run through the posts here on Fowler and on the Stages of Faith because you fit pretty well into the beginning of Stage 4. You’ve moved from a largely “unexamined” Stage 3 “Conventionial” faith to Fowlers “Individualtive-Reflective” stage of faith. It isn’t comfortable, it isn’t automatic and you need to work through a lot of issues.
One thing I would point out that was very true for me is that as a Stage 3 TBM (True Believing Mormon) I was in fact both homophobic and mildly racist, something which I did not see at the time, nor identify as an issue, but which was true nevertheless. Having come through the struggle of faith I am now willing to sit in my temple recommend interviews and when asked if I have any problems with the Church I say that I think as a people we are not treating our gay brothers and sisters very well, and certainly not in a Christian loving way that we should and all of the Bishops, and Stake Presidents I have run into in this way have agreed and willingly discussed the issue and still signed the recommend. So it is possible to be faithful to both the Church and your growing sense of individually, reflectively pondered beliefs. I would not go back to being a TBM, I am a better person for having gone through — well honestly speaking still going through — the faith struggle.
Join in, discuss your issues and ideas and worries. This forum is a great place to share, you won’t run into any nasty stuff but people will tell you the truth and if it happens to be a painful truth they will tell it in a loving way that you know they care and want to help. Again welcome.
Welcome, nw, sounds like you found a great place here. We all love to chew the fat! 🙄 nightwalden wrote:I wish that the environment of church would evolve to where people could express doubts openly. I push what for many are the boundaries of dissention in church. I do it so that anyone else who might feel alone won’t have to. I like this forum a lot. I think it can do a lot of good for many people.
I appreciate what you said here. I have always felt the same. I too have pushed the boundaries and was considered a bit of a rabble rouser. I was raised by convert parents who were deep thinkers and challenged the church teachings for many years before they joined. We always had lively discussions about the gospel at the dinner table and after general conferences. Each Sunday my dad would ask us what we had learned in our classes and what we thought about it. We loved Hugh B. Brown, an apostle of the church who said, “He who has never doubted, has never thought.” My dad told me that when he joined the church, he believed it was true, but said that if he ever found out it was not true, he would simply leave. We grew up believing that if something could not stand up to scrutiny it was founded on a weak foundation. The church used to encourage questioning. In fact, we had the series of books called, “Answers to tough gospel questions’ (or something like that). I loved reading those. I have a number of letters my dad wrote the prophets of his time with questions and got good replies. It seems that questioning is not as encouraged anymore (which really bothers me).
I believe God inspired this group for people like us. I had been fasting and praying one Sunday, months ago, about how to stay in the church when I felt like I could not relate to most members in my ward anymore. It seemed liked most members just accepted everything so blindly and were complacent. Opening and closing prayers were so trite and ritualistic with little thought involved or feeling. So much was just going through the motions so you would get into the Celestial Kingdom. They did not want their little comfortable worlds to be shaken. I don’t like my world to be shaken either. I like feeling secure and knowing my foundation is sound. But, I don’t want to be the niave little wife who ignores signs that her husband might be cheating or the mother who doesn’t want to believe her kids might be on drugs. I would rather know the truth and deal with that head on, because living a pipe dream will eventually burst your bubble. God gave us a brain and a heart to use both. I am an intelleigent woman with intuition. I reason out things, but I sense things as well when they don’t seem right. One of the most difficult things about the church I have had to deal with is the falliablity of church leaders, including the prophets. For so long, I was like a child who thought her parents were perfect (or at least really righteous). Then I come to find out my mom was mentally ill and my dad had a sex addiction. Yet they were still really good parents. So, now, even though I too, have had spiritual experiences and comfirmations of gospel principles, I don’t trust everything that comes out of the mouth of the church leaders. I have to think and pray about it and whether that fits for me or my family. The church can give general guidlines (like moms should not work outside the home) but I have to see if that is right for my family. So, when I was struggling with all this, a Danish friend of mine showed me to this group that Sunday and I knew God cares about the ‘One”. He cares about us ‘special cases” or maybe I should say us special ‘nut’ cases.
Yup, you’re right, the most of use are broken to some degree. I think you are on the right path. God has given you an opportunity to find your own testimony, and it’s great that you are relying so heavily on the Holy Ghost. That’s the right thing to do. Going to the source. Everyone has to do it or else we fall short of the expectation. You are on the right path, hang in there, there is a loving and perfectly patient God smiling in anticipation that you will make it through all this.
Some, perhaps most things that you have been taught all of your life, you will find out that they are correct, it’s just needful that you find them out for yourself with help from the Father. You are loved, and welcome to the family
Welcome nightwalden! It sounds like you have a lot in common with many people here. I’m glad you found us, and look forward to hearing more of your thoughts. I do agree with seeking confirmation on everything that you bring into your set of personal beliefs. I like the saying: “follow the spirit in all things, follow the prophet when you get confirmation from the spirit.” We don’t always hear it exactly like that in church, but I think it does agree with church doctrine.
I do agree it would be nice if as church members we could be a little more open about our uncertainties. Sometimes I like to distinguish “doubt” which can be defined in the church as an
activeunbelief – with “uncertainty”, which we all obviously feel to some degree (whether we like to admit it or not). I think this is what Hugh B. Brown was referring to when he talked about thinking and having doubts. I obviously do have real doubts about some things that we hear in church, but for me – the things that matter – I feel I can categorize as “uncertain.” bridget_night wrote:
He cares about us ‘special cases” or maybe I should say us special ‘nut’ cases.Yes He does bridget. Though I like to say “fruit” cases — only because I think God prefers spiritual fruits to religious nuts!
😆 😆 😆 😆 Welcome Nightwalden. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope you find a good home with us. Welcome NightWalden. Your story sounds familiar to me. Something different broke my trust in things and started me on my new journey as well.
I wonder if these kinds of doubts have always existed since the beginning of the church organization…just different things for different people at different times and people dealt with it differently.
I think I can come to a comfortable spot of accepting my doubts and issues, and yet not throw away the whole church with it. I think God realized I was ready for a new step in faith and needed to be left alone to deal with my questions and be proven. I miss the companionship of the spirit I used to have…but what GREAT things I’m learning now.
I look forward to reading more about how you work through your doubts and broken trusts.
My only advice: just don’t think that because you have some doubts about some things (like the 2nd coming) that you have to throw away all the other things you really love about the church and its teachings. I have allowed myself to doubt everything I previously believed on pure faith, and now peel one thing back at a time and search what I really believe and what I just have accepted as traditions. It helps clarify my vision, I think.
Welcome!
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