Judgment Day

I had some interesting conversations with siblings over the weekend. A topic that we batted around:

Is there really going to be a time in the next life where we stand at the “judgment bar” and… do what? Re-hash all the bad we did? Face the shaming gaze of God?

Is it metaphor? Mythical?

Obviously, I have my own ideas but just thought this might get an interesting discussion going. I see it as part of the other threads on perfection, obedience, etc. Just thought a new thread may be interesting.

I could write a book. But, no time…

You know the Nephi vision of the Tree of Life? And you know how that vision differed from Lehi’s? Yeah, well, I think that vision is stock, and the witness of it gets his/her individualized spin on it, based on what they’re seeking. My Dad, for example. He was a middle-school teacher, by choice. He considered it a mission in life, to help those kids. He also served as a scoutmaster for over 20 years, and just last year at the age of 79 was released as the assistant scoutmaster in his ward. And yes, he went on campouts clear up to the end. He saw the difficult (in California) lives of the kids in his classes, in his ward.

One day whilst driving home from work, he was pondering how the judgement could be fair to these kids, many of whom have just horrible homes, parents, upbringing, environments, and so forth. He truly pondered and desired to know. He stopped at a red light, and *boom* was caught up in a vision. I mean, up to the top of a mountain, attended by an angel, the whole nine yards. What follows is second hand, so don’t think it’s ‘perfect’ or any such nonsense. But I’ll do my best to relay it accurately.

He saw a huge valley, shaped somewhat like a funnel — wide going to narrow. At the end, the narrowest point of the valley, was the ‘judgement seat’ of Christ, with Him standing there in front, with open arms to all those that came to His embrace. At the other end, at the beginning of everyone’s approach to the bar, was an innumerable host, all pressing forward to meet Jesus. A light, the Light of Christ, was beaming out from Him across the valley. It was dimly felt at first but grew in intensity and effect the closer the throng pressed. And it was a great press of humanity, each seeking with eagerness and joy to meet the Savior.

As each individual approached, though, the Light began to work upon them, in their minds and in their hearts. They began to recall with greater clarity their own thoughts and actions through their lives, and to consider these things in Light of the Gospel and what they knew of how they *should* have been. The Light enabled their conscience to be perfectly in tune with eternal truth and would not allow any self-deception nor ‘cheating’. Each person saw, each person remembered, each person judged.

Those who had been harsh and unforgiving in life were the first to leave. “For with that same judgement ye judge, ye shall also be judged”. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/7/18#18” class=”bbcode_url”>http://scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/7/18#18

Those who didn’t know better fared much better. Those who were merciful to others, received mercy. The desire for Love and Joy battle with the knowledge and judgement of self. Most people began, as they pressed forward, at some point to begin to look fearful. They looked for a way ‘out’. They held back, but were born forward by the press behind them. They fought to get out, slipping off to the sides, where they took refuge in the many side valleys where they could get back to where the Light was not so uncomfortable, leaving the valley to places unknown in the vision.

The innocent had no problem approaching and embracing the Lord, who turned away not one single soul. Not one. but there weren’t very many that got to that point. Did Love overpower fear? For some, yes. Were any perfect, or did those who obtained allow Christ to perfect them? Can mercy rob justice? It was all there, and my Dad saw how it worked. As you can probably imagine, words cannot fully convey the meaning, the message, in its fulness.

His heart was gladdened, He praised God! And when he came to himself, the light was still red. It must’ve been a ‘timeless’ state, he was in.

Dad wrote it down at the time, I read it about 25 years ago. I probably won’t get to read it again until after his death. And I know my Dad, this was no baloney, but the real deal. Take it for what it’s worth.

HiJolly

As each individual approached, though, the Light began to work upon them, in their minds and in their hearts. They began to recall with greater clarity their own thoughts and actions through their lives, and to consider these things in Light of the Gospel and what they knew of how they *should* have been. The Light enabled their conscience to be perfectly in tune with eternal truth and would not allow any self-deception nor ‘cheating’. Each person saw, each person remembered, each person judged.

I like this a lot HiJolly. Like your dad, I know there are so many unique circumstances individuals come from, that it is not a fair race with everyone starting at the same point, so we cannot judge based on where we see people are in the race, because we don’t know where they started. That is why the judgment will be such a unique and personal thing…and I have faith it will be completely fair. Us judged against how we “should” have been, not against others. Everone judged according to what they did as a laborer in the vineyard with what they were given, not with the total weight of their harvest compared to others or some universal standard.

Great story from your dad’s experience. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, got it…and good emphasis that we don’t just view it as a negative discussion…on the contrary…should be a celebration of accomplishments and realization of all things that were accepted on faith know realized as truth.

My personal fear (current lack of faith) stems from personal insecurity of whether I’ve done enough good to be ready to celebrate…or if there will be nothing left to talk about in the interview with Him except the negative “should’ve beens”. I’m working on it…and hope to be more positive minded about going to that interview.

My personal fear (current lack of faith) stems from personal insecurity of whether I’ve done enough good to be ready to celebrate…or if there will be nothing left to talk about in the interview with Him except the negative “should’ve beens”. I’m working on it…and hope to be more positive minded about going to that interview.

I have hope that you will get there, Heber13. All you need is love!

HiJolly

I think the scriptures decribe the day as being great and terrible. I don’t know eactly what that means but I hope it means that victims of really horrible crimes will finally get justice. I also hope that means that there will be mercy for all of us, even the worst among us.

It seems to me that God will judge with a perfect blend of justice and mercy and understanding and truth. It also seems that he will judge according to the heart, our circumstances, our level of spiritual knowledge, our handicaps or burdens and perhaps even our cultural contexts and personal stewardships. It seems that he will meet us where we are and hopefully help fill the gap to take us to where he is.

One part of Lds theology I really like is the idea that the more spiritual knowledge we gain in this life will give us advantage in the life after. I don’t know what that means exactly, but it at least shows me that God is willing to make things known to us before we get there. And I guess that makes me wonder about the fear of what God thinks of us and our lives now. I think we can talk this over with God in our personal prayers. I think He’ll tell us how we are doing if we really are humble about knowing the answer. And I wonder often if his evaluation is kinder than ours. Perhaps this will give us an advantage in that final judgement because we will know where we stand and perhaps we will, like Enos, see his face with pleasure.

I think too we can trust ourselves and think good thoughts about our efforts. My wonderful therapist used to say “getting closer to the closer”. I loved that because it really isn’t about being perfect in everything. It’s about moving forward in the right direction. Maybe it is important for us to be living in intergrity where we are true to ourselves and true to our inner knowledge about God’s will. If we have knowings that we don’t act correctly on then I think the responsibility lies with us. But the rest….sometimes I think we are much harder on ourselves than God is. I remember once in my younger days I was chastized by God. I had sinned and God and I both new it and i was not worthy of the blessing I sought and God stopped me. He was right and I needed the lesson, but I was stunned by the amount of love packed into it. The message came in the form of a hymn. I wish I could convey how powerfully sharp yet perfectly gentle the message was. It cut my soul to the center but was absolutely and completely merciful! How could He be so sharp and yet so incredibly loving at the same time? I don’t know if this is how the judgement day will be. This experience was both great and terrible to me. Seems logical that this is a little hint of what it will be like. So much love AND so much truth about ourselves and so much mercy with all of it.

To me this is what it means to know God – to be in touch with that inner peace that comes with a glimpse of unconditional love. I think that can come with the realization that you are capable of forgiving anyone of any offense. How do you love those that would hurt you? For me that opened the window that let the light shine in.

Love this, orson!!

To all:

Great discussion. Is there maybe a different mythology/metaphor rather than “judgment”, which sounds so penal. I loved the vision of HiJolly’s dad. That’s an interesting conceptual ideal, though more “real” than metaphor.

I see it like Rix, mostly. My metaphor would be more like art class, similar to Ray’s concept of the stone sculptor:

In life, as in class, we’re learning and we learn most by making mistakes. It’s not that we’re judged in the end by these mistakes, rather how we use them to make the sculpture better. How do these mistakes teach us to be better artists? As such, the instructor is not going to be grading us on the mistakes we made, rather the progress we made as an artist. Did we push the boundaries of artistic expression? Did we discover our “voice”? Does our work enlighten others, inspire others? Is it heart-felt? Did we do our best with what we were given?

Anyways, the metaphor of active living and learning works better for me than the idea of going to court to be judged. Maybe I’m weird too, Rix! 😳

Anyone else have personal metaphors for this?

This probably goes without saying but I don’t think God will judge us by what group we were in alone. “You were a mormon…..gold star! You were a muslim…..thanks for playing.”