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Ok start again I just wrote a great long post and my laptop died and I lost it so here goes again. Fist of all church was good on sunday, well Relief Society and GD. Even though GD went on about Prophets never leading us astray a bit too much, I didn’t get all hot and bothered inside. I really thought wow Im healing, Im stating to settle nicely into stage 4. That was until Sacrament meeting.
The 1st counsellor in the stake presidency spoke, his talk was about fellow-shipping less actives. He stared by going on about how all less actives have been “got” by satan…. Yadeyadeeyada!
Then he went on to say how we have to be careful who we befriend outside the church. This always bugs me because I feel this sort of perspective is partly responsible for the way so many members avoid all non members!
Anyway what came next made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! He said he felt impressed that we all realized that it was important that we be careful who we befriend IN church, that some people can be VERY DANGEROUS. He went on about how some can affect the standing of others.
I was horrified, I know he was digging this at me and my husband ( I’m not being paranoid, I just felt it, I know he has been avoiding us.) We have a small tight group of wonderful church friends who have been really supportive, I cant believe he would use his position to frighten them off us. I try to remember the old me who believed everything every leader said was as good as the voice of God (whether by mine own voice, or the voice of one of my servants, it is the same!) I wonder what my friends think deep down, maybe they do worry we are dangerous for them. We have opened up to this group about some of our concerns, but have never said anything openly at church or spoken to a stake leader about our struggles although I am confident that the rumor mill is very healthy regarding us!!
Why are the leaders so threatened by us? I get the feeling that they would much rather we left than hung around to remind them ( subconsciously) how fragile their own testimonies are.
I am really bugged by this, how can I keep attending happily when its clear I am seen as a threat even though I am not saying anything?
1topen, I hear ya. I in general dislike the tactic of speaking in general terms to the entire group about specific people and specific issues. It is always better that if there is an issue with some members of the ward, leadership take that off-line and talk individually. When broad strokes are made, paranoia can set in and everyone wonders “is he talking about me?” Not very effective. Having said that, maybe it has nothing to do with you…sometimes we get overly self-conscious about things…the problem is you never know when they use that tactic. How about the doctrine of Inclusion, instead of the doctrine of exclusion and fear? I’d much prefer that. Regardless of what was said, I suggest you try to live the former rather than the latter.
E. Cook had this to say in the April GC: Quote:Our leaders have consistently counseled us “to live with respect and appreciation for those not of our faith. There is so great a need for civility and mutual respect among those of differing beliefs and philosophies.” It is equally important that we be loving and kind to members of our own faith, regardless of their level of commitment or activity. The Savior has made it clear that we are not to judge each other.
Wise counsel, if you ask me. However, we learn in the NT that fear drives out love:
Quote:1 Jn. 4: 18. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love
. Fear leads to judging. We don’t love people we’ve judged as undeserving of our love. It’s pretty transparent, and a fairly common human failing.
Yeah, I’ll take Elder Cook’s and Elder Wirthlin’s messages as more “authoritative” on this topic. I know that doesn’t undo the hurt in this case, whether or not he was speaking about you, but it’s good to let some things slide off without sticking. It’s just not worth it in the short term or the long run.
I just had a weird thought. You know how you get “released” from a calling? Well, can you get “released” from your “calling and election made sure”?
I’m really liking the concept of release. Letting go. “Let go and let God”.
I had a formal and open “release” from the church. Once “released”, I came to realize how little I really cared about what others thought of me and, ironically, how little others really cared about me. I know that sounds callous but, in all honestly, everyone’s just looking out for themselves and if they’re in leadership positions, they get pretty focused on how the numbers are reflecting on their performance.
I have no idea why I thought this while reading the thread, but… there are no coincidences, right?
😳 😳 I think that there has been a lot of “affinity theft” going on all over the country. Stock Brooker Bernard Madoff swindled billions of dollars out of people he knew in the Jewish community. Now there are Ponsi Scheme Crooks who are targeting trusting Christians. A widow of a shooting in Trolley Square in Salt Lake City, was robbed to her late husband’s life insurance money ($250,000.00) by somebody she met in church. I think that the church is just warning people not to be too trusting. Some of these crooks are still on the loose.
That is just so difficult and painful, how I wish he hadn’t given the talk. I suspect however that you are not the only couple in your ward who is certain that the man was talking directly to them, it is the kind of thing that brings out the paranoia in people and gets them extremely nervous and tense. Having said that it doesn’t relieve your own situation. Ray is correct in that you simply need to let it slide just like you need to let Brigham Young’s doctrine on Adam as God slide. In the long run there is only one person that you have any control over and that is you. You can decide to hold on to this incident and worry about it and that will likely cause further hurt and worry or you can have charity, decide that even if this “attack”, and it was an attack I agree, was directed at you it was not directed by the Holy Ghost but by some other much baser set of motivations and carry on. It isn’t easy but let me quote Christ when he came to the Americas:
Quote:(3 Ne. 12:44-45)
44 But behold I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good.
I think you have been “despitefully used” and possibly “persecuted” by this speaker even if that wasn’t his formal attempt but Christ brought out this doctrine for our own good. We need to be able to move on and live life and look for the beauty and joy and not knaw over the pain. Ignore the man he certainly wasn’t speaking under the influence of the Holy Ghost and he was insuring that people in your ward can’t be good missionaries (which after all is one of the three core missions of the church) since he is warning you to not be close to non-members. So misguided and so hurtful. I am so sorry it happened to you.
To end I will answer your question ” Am I dangerous” with “Yes”. Everyone on this board is dangerous but not to a true belief in Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and even the Church itself, but to those who are narrow minded and focus their faith very narrowly.
When people do these kinda things it really is about them and not us. When my SIL blames me for stuff and downplays her own failings, I don’t let myself get hurt anymore or second guess myself. I just kinda say in my head “OH! That’s her stuff coming out on me.” And then I hand it back to her and walk away. It’s hard cuz this person tends to be quite merciless with me. She’s like a cute doggie that draws me in with cuteness and then bites my leg off. But if I don’t buy in then I am free NOT to become all offended by it. I am not always good at doing this, but repetition helps. I have decided to look at my SIL as a gift from God as she gives me lots of opportunities to practice. 
I could be dangerous, but I choose not to be. It is all about our attitidude — our love and compassion, or lack thereof. I agree with the other comments already made, but wanted to add that. I am not the enemy of the Church, or the people at Church. I like and love both. I want people at Church to be happy in their faith, whatever that may be. They have their own journey to make. I want the Church to be successful, and be a source of strength and good in the world. I want it to be a good church.
Do I have information and viewpoints that might upset people? Yes. I do. My crisis of faith upset and disturbed me, and it changed me. I am not out to correct anyone else though, nor to preach my view point, correct the Church, and I certainly don’t want to push anyone else off the cliff of faith crisis. That last part is for God to decide.
So no. I am not dangerous. I am not the enemy.
It cracks me up that the speaker thinks that people should be friendly to less actives but to be careful about being friends with certain active members. If only you’d stop going to church then you’d qualify again for friendly church relations. Such stupidity, completely contrary to the spirit. nightwalden wrote:It cracks me up that the speaker thinks that people should be friendly to less actives but to be careful about being friends with certain active members. If only you’d stop going to church then you’d qualify again for friendly church relations. Such stupidity, completely contrary to the spirit.
😆 Even if you stop going to church you may get more friends…I’m not sure they would be the friends I really want to have.
Thank you for your comments, You are all right I need to just let it go. It is now wednesday and I already feel a bit better, your posts have helped to make me see things in perspective too thanks.
I do know that I can never change other peoples behaviors only my own. My decision to stay lds has been based on the peace I get from staying. Even small annoyances like this don’t make me want to leave.
I was more worried about how my friends would respond to the comments. As strong as I want to be my friends have been so supportive that I would be devastated if the words of a leader led them to feel that i was a bad influence.
I agree that I probably have had the potential to be dangerous but i feel the time for danger has passed I am now looking for the good in the church and have lost desire to spread the news about the bad. Perhaps if the leaders weren’t so threatened by me they would interview me and find me to be not as dangerous as they think.
best revenge in this case … success … keep on, keeping on Dear itopen, Thanks for sharing that. It is unbelievable and I could see where it would upset you. When my gay son was 14 (he was still active in church and was more bi-sexual then) he got up in fast and testimony meeting and expressed how he was trying to get a testimony of the church. He mentioned that he was visiting other churches and taking a institute class on American religions and trying to figure things out. It was such a pure and honest testimony. Right afterwards his deacon/teachers quroum advisor told him that he should not be visiting other churches as these people could confuse him and pull him in. I was so furious as we had been going with our son to other churches and taking this institute class where different ministers from various churches came to speak. I told my son that if it was good enough for JS to do at 14, it was good enough for him. But, maybe we should warn the full time missionaries to stay away from those inactives and dangerous members; I think us free thinkers are the salt of the earth that God is using as pioneers. Your bishop would have thought Paul and Jesus were really dangerous.
These are the kinds of messages that I can’t get past either. I want to attend a church that is encouraging & uplifting, I want to go where I find a place to serve and be served.
Everyone has offered some great advice, but ultimately (and correct me if I’m wrong, if you don’t feel this way too) I don’t know how I can keep participating in the church when ‘they’ believe it’s all or nothing, meaning ‘they’ have it 100% correct without exception and everyone else has part of it.. and even worse is trying to lead you astray from the truth we have!
I don’t know how much I believe the Prophet can’t lead us astray anymore, it doesn’t seem possible to me to see him as human and a man of God and think he can’t make mistakes that could affect the entire church just like Joseph did. Not to steer this conversation away from the topic at hand but I see us going astray (at least a little) in the Prop 8 mess. Under President Hinckley the message was one of love & tolerance for our gay brother’s and sister’s, under President Monson I see us becoming more like the Mainstream Christian denominations in our hatred for gay marriage and our you must vote the way I do to be considered a member in good standing!
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