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Hi everyone! I’m a long time lurker but I think I have found my place here, finally. I was BIC, although my parents are a couple of misfit intellectuals from whom I learned much of the historical and doctrinal problems of the church. They have, for the most part, been TBM for my entire life, but I have come to see that they have been on the fringes with their own cafeteria style. I am my parent’s daughter. A born questioner. Usually faithful with a really difficult time being TBM. There has always been a degree of cog dis where church has been concerned. I have always believed, though, that the gospel as it is taught in the LDS church is the best for me, but could never really believe that it is for everyone or that I am any better than a “gentile”. I decided to serve a mission kind of disingenuously. As a girl, I never really understood why boys seemed to be better than girls or why they had certain privileges. When my college freshman year boyfriend got his mission call I decided that I was going. I had an extremely spiritual answer to my prayer regarding a mission and had no question that the Lord wanted me to go. My bishop thought I should get married instead of the mission. I disagreed but was fortunate that he finally signed my papers so I could send them in. I served in the Italy Milan mission and it was the most incredible learning experience of my life. I did not learn how to get people to join the church but learned instead about the pure love of Christ and that my job was not to convert but to truly love people. I was an unconventional missionary as were many of my companions. I think my mission president and many of the elders who served with me had that same understanding. I am sure I would not have been able to complete a mission where I was constrained by numbers of discussions and baptisms. During my mission I discovered FARMS and apoligetics. While I think I found some answers to my concerns from apoligetics, I often discovered more questions without answers.
In the years since my mission I married DH, who is also a questioner and an unconventional mormon, although to a lesser extent than I. I have been told by a bishop that I am a bad influence on the YW because I have worked outside the home while I had small children. I have been alternately ostracized and consulted by both women and men in the church because of my profession. I believe myself to be a true feminist in that I believe men and women should have equality. As I live and have lived in the Mormon Corridor my entire life I am considered a rabid liberal by my neighboring TBMs but I think I am pretty moderate politically. A few years ago I decided I had had enough. I began seriously studying the history and the doctrine in an attempt to find the real “Truth” which I could not see in the church. Everything I found made me angry and surly. I came here by way of NOM, which is a great resource for those at a certain point. I was really angry for a long time and NOM was a place for me to vent without becoming completely bitter. A few months back, right before I had to give my introductory talk in our new ward, I came across StayLDS and Fowler’s Stages of Faith by way of the NOM board and I had an epiphany. Strangely, my talk was on faith. I finally began to understand what I had been feeling and could begin to work through my stage 4 bitterness and begin to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I am still angered by some things in the church, but I think I am beginning to see that it is not the church that will save me but my ability to love one another and my God.
Thanks for reading this. I expect to learn a lot from all of you, my travelling companions in this journey to understanding.
Welcome, Ella! You appear to be in a better place then many are when they first find StayLDS, since you are moving out of the anger phase. I hope you are able to find good fellowship here. Welcome, ella! I imagine that you will find much in the way of help/strength/insight here as you participate. It’s been truly wonderful for me. I loved reading about your life journey. Welcome to our community. In spite of the trouble you are experiencing, which we all know, I see such a great experience for you so far. You seem way ahead of the curve with your long-standing views of compassion and love. Thank you Ella, that was a wonderful introduction and so many of us can agree and feel with you in your situation. We aren’t perfect but we try to be honest, open, thoughtful and compassionate, you know the chairty thing. I guess the important thing for me and I suspect for you is that there is a community here that will actually, rationally, discuss issues in the Church, its history, doctrine, cultural practices etc. without condemnation or shock or dislike. Most of us are like you in stage 4 hoping to make it to stage 5. Welcome Hi Ella, I love sister missionaries and would have loved to have been one of your companions. We would have had a blast together because I think alot like you. I served a mission in Austria and like you, I was not a conventional missionary or I would have never survived a European mission. Have you seen the movie, “Errand of Angels” yet? It is about two sister missionaries in Austria and the ups and downs of a mission with alot of humor and heart. Here is the link on it:
I left the church for awhile after my mission and have gone through alot of questioning in my life too. My parents were converts and real thinkers as well. Have you heard about Elizabeth Smart (the girl kidnapped 7 years ago in Utah). She was just called on a mission to France and is 21 now. Going through these conflicts does take alot out of you, but I have renewed faith since I was led to this sight. It is refreshing to not feel like you are just a rebllious troblemaker because you ask sincere questions. Ask anyway here!
Welcome. I’m glad you you have found us. Thanks for sharing your background. I look forward to reading more of your opinions and personal experiences. Just curious…your intro subject line was “I’m tired” … anything specific that makes you tired? Is is the church or anything else?
Glad you’re here. Welcome?
Heber, I’m tired because it has been a long, arduous journey that is still not over. I feel like I have spent my whole life trying to fit myself into a mold that is just too small. That and I have 3 kidlets who have been sick for the past week
bridget,
I so appreciate my incredible and unconventional mission companions. I have a friend who is an RM from a Brazilian mission. He is so numbers centered even now where I have a completely different take on things. He was shocked when I told him that I saw very few baptisms in my companionship for the entire mission. He was so proud of his hundreds and looked down on me for my experience, telling me I was unfaithful. Fortunately I know different and I am grateful for the love I learned.
Welcome to the site, Ella! I’m glad you are here. I too expect equality for men and women, and I have been fortunate to not encounter too much of what you are describing in your post in terms of being ostracized for being a mother with a successful career. It does seem that some individuals can stomach a working woman more than they can handle one who is successful and committed to a career, but that makes it clear that envy and spite are involved. After all, I have to do what works for me and my family without regard to people who are at most peripheral to my life. I like to think of myself as a post-feminist. We are already inherently equal, so if I encounter some person who is a relic of a bygone era (and I have encountered plenty of these types), I treat them as the quaint antiquity they are. Ella Menno wrote:Heber,
I’m tired because it has been a long, arduous journey that is still not over. I feel like I have spent my whole life trying to fit myself into a mold that is just too small. That and I have 3 kidlets who have been sick for the past week
Yes… I *sigh* with you. They weren’t joking when they said, “Endure to the end” were they? Endure describes perfectly my Sunday meetings.My wife has a sign in our kitchen that reads, “
Trying to pretend I’m normal day after day is exhausting!” Fitting in, or being something that you’re not is tiring, I think. I think that is what I’m working on as well. I have to let go of being the perfect family and trying to keep up with the Smith’s in the ward…we are who we are…and I’m trying to get comfortable accepting myself and my family in our own skin, let go of the exhausting church stuff, and hold firmly to the church stuff that is dear to me. I think I can find a way to do that, but it hasn’t been as easy as I thought it would be 6 months ago when I started on that path. Since it has only been 6 months for me…I have a feeling this could take a while, but I find this site helpful as I express my views and work on that doctrinal stuff you are interested in as well.
I wish you well on your journey as well. All the best to ya!
Ella Menno wrote:… I feel like I have spent my whole life trying to fit myself into a mold that is just too small.
I want to talk about this…but first, welcome Ella!
I think this is a common thought. IOW, many that “learn” to live the gospel a bit diagonally from the classic TBM, still seem to feel guilty for doing so. I hang with a lot of NOMs and Exmos, and find it humorous that they still have the same guilt they had when TBM for not being perfect! The areas that they stress over are different, but they still stress and feel guilt and shame.
It seems the answer is to change the mold. It seems many on this forum have done this well — — including how the church is perceived. Self-empowerment entails doing life the way it works for you individually, and also building one’s environment in a way that the puzzle pieces fit without too much pressure!
Ella Menno wrote:Heber,
bridget,
I so appreciate my incredible and unconventional mission companions. I have a friend who is an RM from a Brazilian mission. He is so numbers centered even now where I have a completely different take on things. He was shocked when I told him that I saw very few baptisms in my companionship for the entire mission. He was so proud of his hundreds and looked down on me for my experience, telling me I was unfaithful. Fortunately I know different and I am grateful for the love I learned.
Ella,
When I was a ‘greenie’ and had just arrived in Vienna Austria, my first companion had been screwed up by a real ‘letter of the law’ (all strict rules) type of companion so she was doing that to me. I was so exhausted at first trying to acclamaid myself to the altitude and time change. But this companion would tell me I had to follow the handbook to the letter. If it said wake up at 6 am. and go to bed at 10 pm. that was it. The handbook said,”tell your companion you love them everyday, ” so she did. I finally told her I had enough and we were going to enjoy our missions and that she better not tell me she loves me just because the handbook says so and she hardly knows me. Then we relaxed and had fun. But, I hated district and zone meetings. They were like Amyway pep rallies and who had taught the most discussions. The pressure was so great that I actually shoved the gospel down someones throat once just to show I had taught a discussion. I felt like crap after that and swore I would never do it again. We tracted 80 hours a week with little results and trying to keep members from leaving. Our mission goal was one baptism a year and you were lucky if you got that. It was a tough mission until we came up with service projects and creative surveys that our mission president only tolerated. So, I agree with you totally on this.
Rix, I like that idea of living “diagonally”. I wish I knew how to do it effectively. I think I am past the guilt and shame point. I probably wouldn’t feel too bad if I actually left the church since my family is very open and accepting regardless of personal beliefs (my sister has left the church and we are all fine with it), but it is the culture in which I live that seems to dictate what I “should” be. Knowing that, I don’t think it would be effective to leave the church because many of my personal religious beliefs are based upon LDS doctrines. I have deconstructed a lot of my preconceived ideas and made them my own, but there is always just a hit of mormonism that I don’t really want to get rid of. Maybe it is superstition or it could be that those teachings speak to my soul, but I can’t seem to make them fit with other religious dogmas. Perhaps it is a losing battle, or it could be that it is the only fight for which it is important for me to keep fighting. I have to be true to myself and true to God regardless of what society or the church think I should do or believe. If that means I have to eventually leave, so be it, but right now I am where I am.
Ella Menno wrote:Rix,
I like that idea of living “diagonally”. I wish I knew how to do it effectively…or it could be that it is the only fight for which it is important for me to keep fighting. I have to be true to myself and true to God regardless of what society or the church think I should do or believe. If that means I have to eventually leave, so be it, but right now I am where I am.
Beautifully said, Ella! It can be a painful process while you’re “in the midst” of the struggle, but it is beautiful to look back later and say, “that was an amazing journey! I am so glad I went through it!”
Oh, and my opinion? It doesn’t matter where you end up — just that you understand the purpose of the journey.
Good luck!
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