Joseph Smith: The Hero

I was just about to start a thread titled, “Conflicted” when I saw your post. Just got back from church and the whole RS lesson was on the greatness of JS. The teacher handed out alot of quotes from different people who knew and had met JS for various sisters to read. They all painted a picture of JS as the most glorious man ever born. In fact, here is the quote I was given to read: Jesse N. Smith said, “The prophet was incomparabley the most God-like man I ever saw….I know that by nature he was incapable of lying and deceitfulness, possessing the greatest kindness and nobility of character. I felt when in his presence that he could read me through and through. I know he was all that he claimed to be.”

After that, sisters were supposed to bear their own testimones of JS and we ended the meeting with singing “Praise to the Man.” At one time I would have believed all this and been in awe of what a great man he was. Today, I am terribly conflicted because of so many things I have read in church history etc, which shows to me that he may have been a fallen prophet that God took out rather than a martyr. I don’t know how to come to terms with these conflicts I have about the man. When people say wonderful things about a man or terrible things, we would consider the sources and their credibilities like in a court of law. A lot of followers of Christmatic leaders, like Jeff Warrens for example, and others, hold them up to be prophets and heros. I am so conflicted because I do love so many of the teachings JS taught and which make sense to me, but I cannot seem to reconcile what appears to be some really horrible things he did. So, how do I come to terms with this?

Kalola, Thanks for replying. I have heard that quote too and did not like it, but don’t know what context it was used in. I don’t have a problem with praising or appreciating someone for good things, but you make a good point. I learned more about Christ the two years I attended the 7th Day Adventist church than I did 30 years in the lds church. Ellen G. White was seen as a prophetess in that church with special gifts but never as the focus of the church. I agree with you that Christ is my focus and I know there have been many articles about Christ in the Ensign and church lessons, but usually only on Christmas and Easter. The thing I can’t get past is Joseph Smith taking other mens wives while the men are still alive and the hell he put Emma through. When I am in Nauvoo or Salt Lake Temple square and see the statues of Joseph and Emma, I ask myself, “And where are the statues of the other wives? Are they not important? I also can’t understand why he would have the printing press burned and torn down just because the owner was printing about his polygamy and Joseph wanted the owners wife. I don’t understand how JS promised the people that their money would not fail if they put it in the bank he started. Just so many things confuse me as to how righteous he really was. I do know people are often a mixed bag and some of the greatest heros in history can have serious flaws and even make big mistakes at times. I just wish I could sort out the facts from the lies.

Yes, good points. Our worship must revolve around God and Christ. People often do get the wrong idea, this should be at the forefront.

The role of Joseph Smith, as I believe Euhemerus is trying to illustrate, is a supporting one in bringing more people toward God and Christ. Anyone who has studied the history can see the flaws. In a religious context we simply recognize that this ideal that is portrayed is done to point people in the right direction. “Godly people help to move others toward God.”

I’m not saying I agree with everything the way it is portrayed 100% of the time. I’m just saying I think Eu has a point with this post. The purpose of church tends to bring out a certain view from a specific angle, it’s not all-encompassing. It is coming from the position of stage 3 directed at the position of stage 3. If we can go to church with its specific purpose in mind, I think our chances of coming away edified will be much greater.

So in summary maybe the question of “how righteous was he really?” should take a backseat, at least in our church setting, to “what did he do to point people toward God?”

Random thoughts only, not intended as authoritative.

What I have been pondering recently is where is “Jesus Christ” in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? So much praise is given to Joseph Smith. What about Jesus Christ? I do not mean to offend anyone, but I would think people who know very little about the LDS Church would think the members worship Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ. I think all the focus on Joseph Smith is what leads people to question whether or not Mormons are “Christians.”

I tend to agree that too many go to church to worship the church rather than to come to Christ. It seems a little short-sighted and defensive to me as well, and it happens a lot. There are a lot of cliches and stories that point to that – proving the truthfulness of the church rather than the divinity of Christ, giving evidence that prophets have real revelation rather than focusing on how we can develop our own relationship with Christ. I’m not sure why that is the case, but it seems to be pretty prevalent in the church.

When I was working on the post about Jesus and Buddhism, it struck me for the first time in a while that we really do have a lot of unique insight into the nature and character of Jesus through the BOM, D&C, and even POGP. The Mormon interpretation of Jesus is one we often take for granted, but if you try to stick to NT/OT only, you really miss out on a lot of nuances and interpretations that I find valuable that add quality to the picture of Jesus that develops. So, even though people are not really talking about the right things often, I was somewhat amazed at the contribution of those modern additions.

The quality I most admire in JS is his open-mindedness. He seemed to be willing to entertain just about any notion that came his way. There’s something to be said for not trying to be so controlling of life. Of course, on his heels, BY had to bat clean up a bit.

Seven months ago, my HPGL came to my house. He asked what he could do to get me to priesthood meeting (I’m in the building every week, but teach family history through the second & third hour). I told him I’d be willing to attend, if he’d tell me in advance, the lesson was not about Joseph Smith. He agreed to my request. He understood my concerns, knowing of my convert background. To this date, he’s never approached to say the lesson is about any other topic. He smiles, he passes down the hall. I know what the study manual has been over the last two years. I can but refer to the 11th Article of Faith and keep on keeping on. I’m simple minded, I don’t ask much.

What I have been pondering recently is where is “Jesus Christ” in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? So much praise is given to Joseph Smith. What about Jesus Christ? I do not mean to offend anyone, but I would think people who know very little about the LDS Church would think the members worship Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ. I think all the focus on Joseph Smith is what leads people to question whether or not Mormons are “Christians.”

I tend to agree that too many go to church to worship the church rather than to come to Christ. It seems a little short-sighted and defensive to me as well, and it happens a lot. There are a lot of cliches and stories that point to that – proving the truthfulness of the church rather than the divinity of Christ, giving evidence that prophets have real revelation rather than focusing on how we can develop our own relationship with Christ. I’m not sure why that is the case, but it seems to be pretty prevalent in the church.

When I was working on the post about Jesus and Buddhism, it struck me for the first time in a while that we really do have a lot of unique insight into the nature and character of Jesus through the BOM, D&C, and even POGP. The Mormon interpretation of Jesus is one we often take for granted, but if you try to stick to NT/OT only, you really miss out on a lot of nuances and interpretations that I find valuable that add quality to the picture of Jesus that develops. So, even though people are not really talking about the right things often, I was somewhat amazed at the contribution of those modern additions.

The quality I most admire in JS is his open-mindedness. He seemed to be willing to entertain just about any notion that came his way. There’s something to be said for not trying to be so controlling of life. Of course, on his heels, BY had to bat clean up a bit.

It seems to me that the church largely places itself between the members and the Godhead. The church acts as if it is a gatekeeper to God. The Church teaches that you must be in good-standing in the church in order to be in good-standing with God. It teaches that if you are not worthy of carrying a temple recommend, you are not worthy in the sight of God. And it seems that even in General Conference, when talks are about becoming more Christ-like, they are largely about following the Church’s rules and guidelines, rather than following what Christ really taught. I agree there is a lot of JS worship and current prophet worship and church worship. But I don’t think there is a lot of Christ worship.

Sometimes I think I need to go to a different cafeteria to get a good helping of Christ. The Mormon Cafeteria doesn’t seem to serve much Christ.

MisterCurie, sincere question, asked simply to read your response:

Is that how you felt about this last General Conference?

Yes.

EDIT: But I admit that much of what I heard at General Conference could have been filtered and comprehended through my Stage 4 “Dark Night of the Soul” filter, and that my impressions from General Conference are in no way a reflection on what was actually said at GC. I freely admit that I may be over focusing on what bothers me in the church than what is good in the church. Which is why I come here. So that when it becomes a challenge to stay LDS, I can find support at StayLDS. I’m struggling right now.

EDIT2: And in my dark night of the soul, it actually doesn’t bother me that much that there is so much focus on JS, the modern prophet, the church, and little focus on Christ. I’m not sure there is that much about the historical Christ that should be focused on. When people talk about becoming Christ-like, I’m not sure we really have many examples of Christ doing whatever it is they think we need to do to become Christlike. It seems that many of the attributes of Christ are attributes of a mythical Christ and not the historical Christ. But again, as I said, I’m struggling right now.