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November 16, 2009 at 9:00 pm #204550
Anonymous
GuestI’m feeling kind of put off right now because I have sincere temple questions about women performing ordinances in the temple and by what authority, and then the 2nd anointing came up (not even by ME) and now I’m being told by someone here to forget about it and discuss something else. Pfffft. What? 👿 Where do I turn for answers to my temple questions? Would the temple president speak with me and answer my questions or is he told NOT to answer questions? I’m a convert…I have no parents or other LDS relatives to turn to for answers. And of course we’re not supposed to talk about it…which I think is INSANE and the kind of talk you hear in abusive homes….shhhh…..don’t talk about it….it’s our little secret……which seems SO UNHEALTHY! There are certain things we aren’t supposed to talk about but there are a WHOLE lot of things about the temple we CAN discuss.
If I go through an initiatory, could I ask the woman that is laying hands on my head about her authority to do so? I’m not feeling very satisfied with help I’m receiving here. I doesn’t feel like this is a group of people that even WANT me to stay LDS. I want to stay LDS but I want answers to my temple questions. Where do I turn (besides to God) for answers?
November 16, 2009 at 9:15 pm #225247Anonymous
GuestQuote:It doesn’t feel like this is a group of people that even WANT me to stay LDS.
Excuse me? One commenter suggested something not be discussed that acutally IS being discussed. There are multiple threads here about the temple, and every single one of them is open and honest and includes lots of comments. Those who have experienced the second annointing are those who are in a situation where they are happy to have done so; those who aren’t, don’t. Therefore, I sincerely don’t care about it – but we still will discuss it here as a general topic.
Now, that wasn’t as emotional a response as it sounds.It points, however, to something that is critical in this process: Be VERY careful about emotional reactions right now. They tend to be extreme and over-blown – and they tend to lead to actions that later are regretted. Go slow; take a deep breath; re-read the temple related threads; ask questions; “endure to the end”. We will discuss things here, but there are some things that simply are harder to discuss intelligently and comprehensively than others. Therefore, be very careful about taking ONE comment and extrapolating that to the entire forum. That simply isn’t a good idea – EVER.
November 16, 2009 at 9:25 pm #225248Anonymous
GuestDaisy wrote:I’m feeling kind of put off right now because I have sincere temple questions about women performing ordinances in the temple and by what authority, and then the 2nd anointing came up (not even by ME) and now I’m being told by someone here to forget about it and discuss something else. Pfffft. What?
👿 Where do I turn for answers to my temple questions? Would the temple president speak with me and answer my questions or is he told NOT to answer questions? I’m a convert…I have no parents or other LDS relatives to turn to for answers. And of course we’re not supposed to talk about it…which I think is INSANE and the kind of talk you hear in abusive homes….shhhh…..don’t talk about it….it’s our little secret……which seems SO UNHEALTHY! There are certain things we aren’t supposed to talk about but there are a WHOLE lot of things about the temple we CAN discuss.
If I go through an initiatory, could I ask the woman that is laying hands on my head about her authority to do so? I’m not feeling very satisfied with help I’m receiving here. I doesn’t feel like this is a group of people that even WANT me to stay LDS. I want to stay LDS but I want answers to my temple questions. Where do I turn (besides to God) for answers?
God is a good choice, but failing answers from Him, ask whomever you wish.I think we on this site can do pretty well for you, personally. Just don’t worry about the irritated poster that said they didn’t want any questions to be asked. They can go elsewhere, if they *really* object.
HiJolly
November 16, 2009 at 10:59 pm #225249Anonymous
GuestIf you ask the woman officiating she will not give you an answer. If you ask a woman in the locker room, she will not give you an answer. You may get an answer from the temple president or the temple matron. I’m not sure if their answer will be satisfying or official. I do not believe there is an official church postion on the topic. I’ve searched and have yet to find one.
Your questions are welcome here.
November 16, 2009 at 11:43 pm #225250Anonymous
GuestMy mom is a temple worker. I will send her an email and ask about the authority question. I know she refers people to the temple matron a lot and I know the temple president answers questions too. I don’t think its a matter of not talking about it. I think rather its the place. My father and I have talked freely about things inside the celestial room. In fact, when I have a question, he will suggest we do a session so we can talk about it there.
November 17, 2009 at 1:01 am #225251Anonymous
GuestDaisy- As for your original question (not related to 2nd anointing) I thought we had a good discussion about it. The truth is, we don’t represent the church, and don’t really know the “official” answer. I have not heard any official explanation. And any explanation you get from a temple worker will not be “official.” It seems to me it’s not something that is talked about much. Maybe you can get an audience with one of the Brethren and ask them. Short of that you are just going to get speculation on the “official” answer. Even if you get a temple president to answer you this would not constitute an “official” answer.
Quite honestly the temple just isn’t discussed much in an official capacity in anymore than a general roundabout way. I have had questions about the temple for years which I still don’t know the answer to. Asking God doesn’t work for me in a very concrete way, and people don’t like to talk about it. I apologize for not being able to be more helpful but the truth is, even being a member my entire life, I just don’t know the answers. And I have not been a passive member. I have been diligent and read many church books (and pretty much all the manuals I can think of). It’s just not something that is talked about much in the modern church.
November 17, 2009 at 4:00 am #225252Anonymous
GuestQuote:
On April 3, 1836, the prophet Elijah came to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple. He conferred upon them the sealing power of the priesthood, making it possible for families to be sealed throughout the generations. In conferring this power, he fulfilled the prophecy that the Lord would send him “to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers” (see D&C 110:14–16; see also Malachi 4:5–6).Through family history work, we can participate in the continuing fulfillment of this prophecy. We can learn about our ancestors and increase our love for them. We can be inspired by their stories of courage and faith. We can pass that legacy on to our children.
These are lasting benefits that come from family history work, but they are not the principal reasons for the Church’s great effort to gather genealogical records. All of the Church’s family history endeavors are directed to the need to form a “welding link—between the fathers and the children” (D&C 128:18). This
welding link is formed by the power of the priesthood, through sacred temple ordinances we receivein behalf of our ancestors. Many of Heavenly Father’s children have died without having the opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel. In His mercy and infinite love, the Lord has
prepared a way for them to gain a testimony of the gospel and receive the saving ordinances of the priesthood. In the spirit world, the gospel is “preached to those who [have] died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. These [are] taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, and all other principles of the gospel that [are] necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit” (D&C 138:32–34).
Many in the spirit world embrace the gospel. However, they cannot
receive priesthood ordinancesfor themselves because they do not have physical bodies. In holy temples, we have the privilege of receiving ordinances in their behalf. These ordinances include baptism, confirmation, Melchizedek Priesthood ordination (for men), the endowment, the marriage sealing, and the sealing of children to parents. The Lord revealed this work to the Prophet Joseph Smith, restoring a practice that had been revealed to Christians shortly after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (see 1 Corinthians 15:29). As wereceive priesthood ordinancesin behalf of those who have died, we become a savior on Mount Zion for them (see Obadiah 1:21). Our effort approaches the spirit of the Savior’s atoning sacrifice—we perform a saving work for others that they cannot do for themselves. My understanding is that all ordinances in the temple are done with the priesthood, and as brothers and sisters in the temple, we are all under this authority through the temple president. As others said it’s difficult to get a direct answer but according to what’s posted above, it’s clear in my mind that it is the priesthood. This makes perfect sense why women were able to give blessings during Josephs life. So does that mean women have the priesthood by default? In my mind, yes. Also this is my point of view:
we receive priesthood ordinances in behalf of those who have diedThe ordinances of the temple are for receiving priesthood blessings.
Quote:
Priesthood authority functions in both the family and the Church.The priesthood is the power of God used to bless all of His children, male and female. Some of our abbreviated expressions, like “the women and the priesthood,” convey an erroneous idea. Men are not “the priesthood.”Priesthood meeting is a meeting of those who hold and exercise the priesthood. The blessings of the priesthood, such as baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, the temple endowment, and eternal marriage, are available to men and women alike. The authority of the priesthood functions in the family and in the Church, according to the principles the Lord has established. When my father died, my mother presided over our family. She had no priesthood office, but as the surviving parent in her marriage she had become the governing officer in her family. At the same time, she was always totally respectful of the priesthood authority of our bishop and other Church leaders. She presided over her family, but they presided over the Church.
There are many similarities and some differences in the way priesthood authority functions in the family and in the Church. If we fail to recognize and honor the differences, we encounter difficulties.
Keys. One important difference between its function in the Church and in the family is the fact that all priesthood authority in the Church functions under the direction of the one who holds the appropriate priesthood keys. In contrast, the authority that presides in the family—whether father or single-parent mother—functions in family matters without the need to get authorization from anyone holding priesthood keys. This family authority includes directing the activities of the family, family meetings like family home evenings, family prayer, teaching the gospel, and counseling and disciplining family members. It also includes ordained fathers giving priesthood blessings.
However,
priesthood keys are necessary to authorize the ordaining or setting apart of family members. This is because the organization the Lord has made responsible for the performance and recording of priesthood ordinancesis the Church, not the family. Again, the temple president has the keys within the walls of the temple which we as a collective perform and receive. This is my point of view but may not answer your question. I hope that you find what you are looking for. I know it can be frustrating. Just remember that God loves you for who you are, and this is more important than anything else.
“the women and the priesthood,” convey an erroneous idea. Men are not “the priesthood.”I really like this statement!
When my father died, my mother presided over our family. She had no priesthood office, but as the surviving parent in her marriage she had become the governing officer in her family.Again, I believe women have the priesthood in the temple. Keys only open doors, once the door is open the house is ours. Plus, women hold the keys to creation, having children. I believe that priesthood is really the “power of creation.” Since women have that power, they must have a part of the priesthood. But that’s my personal view. Either way it is clear that the women have the priesthood as a
“governing officer”through line of authority. November 17, 2009 at 4:46 am #225253Anonymous
GuestI can totally see why you are upset that people here might not have answers to every question for you, especially when so many posters seem wise and helpful in other areas. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting a “Real” answer to your question.
There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting to know the story behind the woman laying hands on her head.. and wanting to know if she has the “Right” authority..etc. Mainly b/c the temple is suppose to be serious right?! The temple is like the ultimate destination! The Church talks about it all the time, and how important it is and how it is the “Ultimate” place to learn of God?! You have a right to be explained and reassured that the woman you are working with has “True” authority. (imo)
I believe if the best answer you get is “It doesn’t matter” then maybe it really doesn’t matter and the temple is temporarily a waste of time. That is .. if you are very interested in specifics … and answers and history and organization of the temple AND you can NEVER GET ANSWERS … I think the temple isn’t for you OR maybe “The System” doesn’t deserve you. I would describe “The System” as attend the temple, do what you need to do, have some type of faith that it is all of God, be enlightened .. don’t ask questions/don’t talk about it and go home. I don’t mean it in a bad way either! I mean personally I’m going through the same thing! Right now the temple isn’t the right place for me b/c as of a few months ago I started believing the temple had nothing to do with God’s work .. to put it nicely. So I guess it is only as spiritual as the individual believes it is. IDK if this sounds bad but buildings don’t have spirits .. spaces do not have spirits .. The people carry those spirits and make that building and space sacred (or haunted
). So imo it really is all about you and what you feel and how happy you are with what is going on.
If all that is holding you back from having a reasonable time at the temple is a few questions about authority .. I would sincerly ask the Temple President (?) or whoever it may be that can help .. And let them know it might just keep you from going if you can’t get an honest answer. … Then again, if NO ONE can answer, or if NO ONE knows (Which I’m sure someone out there does!) .. either you can trust them(even if it is a “Bad” answer) and “Shelf” it or “Shelf” attendence to the temple for awhile..Go back in a few weeks/months and try again. Please don’t take any of my words as negitive or anything like that … I’m on an individual trip in my life right now! Whereas with the temple I think it is suppose to be all about the individual BUT Culture has turned it into “Group” trips AND kind of a “Everyone” feels Sooo close to God and wonderful and perfect AND you have the testimonies of the temple that ALL sound Identical! … Not so much people question and might “Talk” about any of it..Which I don’t completly agree with or like BUT at the same time I understand and respect the hush hush about some things – Keep in mind I’ve been once and don’t really know much about anything. In short ask the temple president .. I would if I cared – And I don’t mean that in a “It’s a stupid question” kind of way. It’s a great question and I might just ask it myself if I “believe” in the temple someday.
November 17, 2009 at 6:53 am #225254Anonymous
GuestWhat LaLa said!! November 17, 2009 at 11:07 am #225255Anonymous
GuestI have been consistently disappointed when I have sought answers to temple-related questions. I get different answers depending on who I ask, and official sources don’t answer the types of questions I have. So, at some point you have to either accept that (although nothing wrong with continuing to ask – some of the different answers have been very illuminating!) Or decide that you should derive different things from the experience. I now prefer to find my own subjective meaning through my own interpretation of my experience. So, ask the temple matron or president about the authority question, and then pray about it when you are doing initiatories. See what that reveals. Compare that to what Poppy’s mom says.
Regarding the second anointing, I believe Morzen’s comment to forget about it is actually a pretty good one. Questions are welcome here, of course, but I don’t believe you are going to find an official answer to this one (at least not a contemporary one – maybe something about the history) any more than a Disneyland cast member is going to point out all the hidden Mickeys to you. They may have heard of them, they may personally know where one or two are, but they are not the point of going to DL. For some obsessed with them, they doubtless draw them back time and again, seeking hidden knowledge. But you can waste your day in quest of something that is largely irrelevant to the DL experience and that very few guests there to enjoy family time are even aware of. It seems fruitless to worry too much about second anointings unless someone happens to approach you about having one done, which given the secrecy and rarity seems extremely unlikely.
November 17, 2009 at 3:21 pm #225256Anonymous
GuestThe only pieces of information not allowed to be discussed on this site are descriptions of the signs and tokens, per the rules of etiquette: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21 Everything else is fair game (as long as respectful of course), and it has been discussed on several other threads. Feel free to ask and discuss. That is why we are here.
We’re not “official” by any definition though. While not being an “official” source, I would say that there are people here who can give very well-thought and inspired answers. The temple is a topic many of us are very interested in, we having our own questions as well, and people here have done a lot of personal research and meditation on the topic.
In fact, nobody here really has the “right” answers. We just have ones that have worked for us. You will find your right and official answer if you look long enough.
The temple is a place of symbolic ritual and ceremony. Does anyone really have “the” answers? I am not personally sure there is a single answer to something like that with so much depth and potential meaning. We see a reflection of our soul when we engage in religious ritual. What do we see? What is the meaning? I think that tells us a lot about our self, not so much what everyone else is supposed to see. That makes it quite genius IMO! Perhaps God is a clever being at that

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