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January 28, 2010 at 10:37 pm #204715
Anonymous
GuestI’m just like Porter, who just posted. I’ve been looking at this site off and on for a while, and am now ready to be a bit more involved. So, my story … I had the picturesque LDS family up through “Primary.” Everything in life revolved around the church. I was home-schooled through elementary school, and more or less learned to read by reading the Book of Mormon. Mom was well known in the stake for her piano skills, Dad was the bishop, and we have several kids in the family. We lived outside of Utah, but were as TBM, “Utah Mormon” as you could get (please forgive me if I misuse some terms, I’m still learning some of the online LDS lingo).
Just before my 12th birthday my dad asked me who I would like to have ordain me to the priesthood. I looked at him puzzled and told him I wanted him to do it, of course. Was this even a question? Boys were always ordained by their fathers in my TBM, nearly 12 years-old mind. Dad said he couldn’t do it, he wasn’t allowed. I remember crying while he held me, having no idea how many more tears would be shed over this issue.
My honorably RM, AP, previous Bishop and nearly every high profile calling short of stake president father had been disfellowshipped. About a year later he was reinstated, but the family, or Mom rather, had a poison in her soul that would never leave. My teen years consisted of going to church, seminary, scouts, etc, and acting like we were a happy family, while mom screamed at dad and he punched holes in the walls to let out his frustration. I came to fully understand the saying, “hell know no furry like a woman’s scorn” (no offense ladies, that is not meant as a judgment on women in general, only that my mother embodied this saying). I think my mom was so crushed by her LDS world falling apart (in her mind) when Dad was disfellowshipped that she suffered emotional and psychological damage that she refuses to seek help for. She systematically alienated each child to a different degree in our teens as we started to have our own opinions and would disagree on the smallest matters with her. We were each told we were becoming evil, “like our father.” With the hypocrisy I saw in both of my parents, I would occasionally question the church, but I could never do it seriously, not yet. Mormonism was too ingrained in my head.
I went on a mission and had, as Dickens wrote (though to describe a very different era), “the best of times, and the worst of times.” The high point was my last transfer, where I was told by a GA who came through our mission that my companion and I needed to have two baptisms (our mission was one of those where a missionary had about 2-3 baptisms total after 2-years. Some went home with none). Like manna from heaven, 2 investigators emerged miraculously in the last 2 weeks of my mission, and I knew God was real. I went home knowing I would never doubt the church. I enrolled at BYU and was immediately hired as a teacher at the MTC.
For the first 6 months home, life was heaven; but my parents’ problems started to catch up with me as I finally got to thinking for myself and seeing other issues with the church. I started to notice more and more how my boss at the MTC (my training coordinator) was more focused on stats than anything. Politics were at play for raises and promotions here, just as much as it was with missionaries in the field trying to get leadership. Meanwhile, I decided to major in history and had my mind opened to other religions and world views more than ever. I couldn’t understand how my LDS classmates could so quickly disregard the miracles in the history of other faiths (Catholicism, Islam–you name it) as “preposterous,” yet believe in ours. Long story short, I started to see Mormonism didn’t have the monopoly on miracles. I saw more politics and less that Jesus-like behavior on BYU campus and at the MTC, which caused me to reflex more and more on my still bickering parents, finally solidifying in my head the fact that Mormons aren’t really any better than non-Mormons (remember I grew up outside of Utah, so this was my first experience in an LDS-predominate community). Basically, I could no longer see anything special about this religion, except for one thing: the miracle from my mission. With that as my sole evidence for this being a special, true church, I forged on, even marrying my sweetheart in the Temple; still a TBM, but very shaky.
That was over 2 years ago. About a year ago, maybe a bit less, I decided the “troubled” part of my faith had to end. My mission miracle was great, but I didn’t know anyone else with such an experience and it couldn’t hold my faith forever. It had already been my crutch for years at this point. I’d been told by my bishops overs the years that I just needed to read and pray more/better. I didn’t get why it wasn’t working. I wanted it to so badly!! But with all the hypocrisy I had seen in our church, and the goodness I had seen in others, and lack of other miracles, I couldn’t call this church “the one true,” anymore.
So I thought, I just need to see that others have experienced miracles like mine, and then I can disregard all the hypocrisy. I’ve been told that a “wicked generation seeketh signs,” but why was it okay then for Parley Pratt to ask the same question I was asking? If this is Christ’s church, shouldn’t the same miracles follow? Why did they appear all the time in the 1830s, 40s, and 50s, but now seem to be gone? I knew that some miracles happened in my LDS family back in the day. I started digging, as a good historically trained college grad, and spoke with the oldest family member left on my mother’s side. Turned out these accounts were mostly embellished. The stories of angels that I heard were just “impressions from the spirit” when my uncle heard them decades ago. Wow. A severe blow.
Shaken, I thought, I will have to look at some of what historians call “foundational myth” miracles in our church’s history, because as a TBM, I KNEW these had happened. So I started to research LDS history … and found out that Martin saw the plates with his “spiritual eyes” … and that Joseph’s first vision changed dramatically from account to account … and that many of his prophecies didn’t “come to pass.” Within 2 weeks of this, the years of cracking had finally made the glass shatter. My faith was gone. I had moved from “believing but concerned” to just “concerned.” That was last November.
My wife and I have talked about it a little from time to time. She loves me, but hates this wavering in my faith, so it is largely ignored for the time being. I keep going to church and fulfilling my callings because I love her, and I see from what others have written on this site/mormonstories, that going inactive doesn’t necessarily fix things. I’m moving slowly and thoughtfully. Besides, I still see a lot of good in the church with the bad, and I want to keep the good. Likewise, I think deep-down I still hope that I can recover my faith, because it was simply the only world I’ve known, and it would like life MUCH smoother. My family and friends are all hard-core TBM though, so I am very, very alone in my spiritual journey now. I’ve spoken minimally to to a few close friends, but that is all. They have taken it well, but I need to talk and associate with others who don’t want to pray for my lost soul the second I say, “I wonder if Joseph might have not been a prophet.” I still think there is a god–my mission miracle and some of the other small miracles in my family and church history point to that–but right now, I think he could careless what baptism we prescribe to. So I’m currently reading the Koran, the Dhammapada, and the Analects of Confucius, just looking for direction on how to be a force for good in the world. Well, if you actually read all this … that’s my story. And I feel better just writing this out, sorry it was so long!
January 29, 2010 at 1:51 am #227182Anonymous
GuestWelcome, Herodotus! You’re in good company here. I could relate to quite a bit of your intro, especially mission politics. I loved the few spiritual experiences I had, but I don’t miss the politics at all. January 29, 2010 at 2:28 am #227183Anonymous
GuestWelcome to the board! I can relate to having a family with an anger problem. Everyone at church thinks the person with the anger issues is just so kind and wonderful…Makes me wonder how prevelant these kind of “secrets” really are.
I think you’ll find this a safe place to ask your taboo questions without judgement.
January 29, 2010 at 3:06 am #227184Anonymous
GuestWelcome Herodotus, love the name! I too am glad this forum exists, and I’m glad you found us! Yes it can be a strange thing, this experience we call life — all sorts of curve balls and things you never see coming. It sounds like you have a healthy positive yet realistic outlook. I think that helps a great deal. The experience can be something like learning what you thought was stable (and immovable) ground turns out to be the deck of a ship. After discovering what it is you can either waste your time wishing you were “grounded”, or you can enjoy all the places the ship can take you! Yes there are those things called rough waters from time to time, but you know – nothing’s perfect.
You mention “recovering” faith, it reminds me of Bushman’s summer 2008 seminar introduction. “Revived Latter-Day Saints”…
Though personally I like the term “re-grow faith”, I feel like I’ve grown a new faith more than I’ve recovered my old faith – semantics but it’s all good! I love what I hear Bushman said to someone one time: “Don’t worry about your testimony changing, that’s what we call growing up!”http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html I am also sensitive to the delicacies of living with a largely traditional/TBM family (and friends)! One of my personal causes has been to figure out a way to communicate some of this journey in words that the traditional/TBM perspective can relate to and empathize with. I think a key is in the term “expectations.” Davis Bitton made an excellent point in his paper here:
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2004_I_Dont_Have_a_Testimony_of_the_History_of_the_Church.html under “expectation” and “My own answer went like this:”
“What’s potentially damaging or challenging to faith depends entirely, I think, on one’s expectations, and not necessarily history. Any kind of experience can be shattering to faith if the expectation is such that one is not prepared for the experience. … A person can be converted to the Church in a distant part of the globe and have great pictures of Salt Lake City, the temple looming large in the center of the city. Here we have our home teaching in nice little blocks and we all go to church on Sunday, they believe. It won’t take very many hours or days before the reality of experiencing Salt Lake City can be devastating to a person with those expectations. The problem is not the religion; the problem is the incongruity between the expectation and the reality.History is similar
. One moves into the land of history, so to speak, and finds shattering incongruities which can be devastating to faith. But the problem is with the expectation, not with the history. One of the jobs of the historians and of educators in the Church, who teach people growing up in the Church and people coming into the Church, is to try to see to it that expectations are realistic. The Lord does not expect us to believe lies. (. . . )”In my mind this is exactly what happens, and I’m not suggesting in any way to blame the person (or blame anything for that matter) for having expectations “out of place.” Expectations are personal, they are what we end up with for whatever reason. I know my personal expectations were shattered. We could debate all day long about what
builtany particular set of expectations, but the reality is it can be traumatic to learn that your expectations don’t stand up against reality. I think most faithful members could understand this point that it’s a personal event, (and hopefully understand the pain involved – as in any type of personal loss) and as long as the discussion doesn’t try to drift into the veracity of the combined church’s expectations – but instead kept on a personal and individual plane, I hope it can be quite useful. Anyway, enough of my random thoughts.
Welcome!
January 29, 2010 at 4:10 am #227185Anonymous
GuestHi, Herodotus. Well, you aren’t entirely alone anymore. I extend you a big hand of greeting and a warm embrace of fellowship. Seeing the reading you are doing, I can’t help but think you might enjoy the Bhagavad Gita and the Didache. They are both pretty short. Also the Gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene.
I got the strange feeling reading your story (which, by the way, I am grateful to have read) that a small wave is beginning. You might even say a marvelous work is about to come forth among the Latter-day Saints. As the influence of Mormon Stories and forums like this one increase, perhaps more people will come to the conclusion you have that going inactive “won’t really help much”, and consequently begin to vote with their presence rather than their exiting feet. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but it’s a nice vision nonetheless.
January 29, 2010 at 4:52 am #227186Anonymous
GuestWelcome! I am a newbie here too, at least as far as posting goes. I agree… I am SO glad this forum exists. It is so great to be able to freely explore all of my “issues” with an open and understanding bunch. I have felt so alone for years and my husband is still unwilling and unable to discuss these feelings with me. Its been difficult keeping them to myself. Herodotus wrote:Long story short, I started to see Mormonism didn’t have the monopoly on miracles. I saw more politics and less that Jesus-like behavior
I feel exactly the same way! I think miracles have more to do with one’s faith and believe in the power of the Universe/God, and nothing to do with what organized religion you belong to. Ditto on the politics observation. I am, however, a huge believer in miracles. I have been witness to many. You may be interested in the recent thread in this forum where we discussed modern day miracles. A lot of incredible stories were shared.
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1078 I hope you are able to find this forum to be a positive tool for you as you progress on this new and exciting spiritual journey.
January 29, 2010 at 4:56 am #227187Anonymous
GuestWelcome and I am glad to see another join the board. I am finding this place to be a haven for me and my questions and concerns. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.
January 29, 2010 at 6:40 am #227188Anonymous
GuestWelcome, Herodotus!! Like Tom said, you’re not alone anymore…
January 29, 2010 at 5:29 pm #227189Anonymous
GuestI will just add my “Hello and Welcome, Brother” just like everyone else’s welcome. I’m very impressed with your mature approach, and that it seems your struggles (which are real) have not made you have to be hateful or angry about the church…that is good. I don’t think you grow when you react in anger about things that used to feel so right, and now are real questions.
I think you grow when you face those questions and don’t make yourself feel guilty you’re an apostate…you are simply taking the facts as you see them and making sense of them in a personal way. I think that is admirable, even if others don’t understand what you’re going through.
Some of us here probably understand more the journey you’re embarking on…but even within our group everyone has a unique path to trod.
Welcome. I look forward to reading if you find enlightenment in the Koran and other sources you are seeking. I think you are smart to not throw the baby out with the bathwater and jettison all Mormon teachings or church experiences and start over, just take where you are now and add to it, wherever you find truth!
January 29, 2010 at 5:36 pm #227190Anonymous
GuestWelcome, Herodotus! Love the name. January 29, 2010 at 7:10 pm #227191Anonymous
GuestThank you all for a very warm welcome, it’s very comforting, not having to feel like an “apostate” for simply expressing my honest thoughts. Orson, Tom and Flowerdrops, thanks for some great references, I’ll look at them; and I like your hopeful vision as well Tom, I’d like to think that more people like us will choose to stick with the church than leave. I think it would have a positive impact on LDS culture if there were enough of us that our presence becomes acknowledged as a part of the mainstream-church, a group with needs as much as TBMs–just different. Thanks so much to all of you! I look forward to getting to know you all and gleaming more insights from you. January 30, 2010 at 1:05 am #227192Anonymous
GuestWelcome Herodotus! Everyone else already said so many good things. I would add a recommendation to read “The Power of Myth” by Joseph Campbell. It might help give you ideas on how Mormonism can still be a great experience, even after the literal “one true”-ness wears off.
January 30, 2010 at 9:08 pm #227193Anonymous
GuestTom Haws wrote:Hi, Herodotus.
I got the strange feeling reading your story that a small wave is beginning. You might even say a marvelous work is about to come forth among the Latter-day Saints. As the influence of Mormon Stories and forums like this one increase, perhaps more people will come to the conclusion you have that
going inactive “won’t really help much”, and consequently begin to vote with their presence rather than their exiting feet.Tom I love your comment. I’ll use it to increase my own resolve to be an influence for good, not just another nay-sayer, or boringly inactive.
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