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I have not posted in quite awhile as I have spent much of the past few months trying to find myself spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, and I’ve been quite successful actually. However, I really wanted to share something that happened last night to see if any of you might have some advice for me. I come from a long line of incredibly active LDS people. The Wendells have been exceptionally-proud members of the church for many generations. In fact, as far as anyone knows, I am one of the very first to ever leave the church (My wife and kids are still exceptionally active, and I have never tried to dissuade them from it). I have had big issues with my family for most of my life and have never felt particularly close to my parents (for a variety of reasons), but last night it all came to a head with my Dad. My Dad is the only one in my family that I speak to at all – He calls me every few weeks or so to chat and to check up on me. Last night the discussion between he and I quickly turned to the church, as it always does. He started talking about all the great things the church does throughout the world etc. and what a blessing it has been to his family. Anyway, he refuses to admit that I don’t have a testimony like he does, and just keeps talking to me as though he never heard me tell him that I was done with all of it. He kept talking about the newly announced temple in Utah and when my son would be turning in his mission papers, but I don’t think he’s going to go. Usually I just avoid the religion topic and let him say his piece without having to listen to my beliefs. He has never wanted to hear my views, and I have been very good at respecting his wishes. After all, I have never tried to convince anyone to follow my lead and walk away. People have the responsibility to make their own decisions and it’s not my place to tell my Father I believe he is wrong.
Well, I was being the good son just listening and biting my tongue, when he said something that set me the hell off. As some of you may know, I am currently going through a separation and divorce from my wife. We started talking about how my 2 oldest children will be moving out this Fall, and how I am in the process of getting my own apartment. He said, “Well, I’m happy that your kids are leaving, but not happy about you”. This wasn’t too upsetting, but I did proceed to ask him why I should stay and whether or not he would stay if he were absolutely miserable there. He said, “Yes I would stay because I LOVE my children, and you obviously do not”.
As you can imagine, this ticked me off because my kids are the most important thing in my life. I did not appreciate him accusing me of not loving them, and I told him so. Anyway, the conversation quickly became a yelling match filled with accusations and mean-spirited attacks from both sides. Since we were already upset with each other, I suddenly started speaking my mind about how I feel about the church etc. What was actually said is not important, but suffice it to say it was UGLY. The conversation ended with him accusing me of some pretty awful things and me telling him to “F off and never call me again”. He was like, “Never?” and I said, “NEVER IN A F—ING MILLION YEARS”. I do not blame my Dad for this anymore than I blame myself, so please don’t think I am simply trying to get sympathy here. I was wrong and I know it, and that’s not why I wrote this.
Now I have 8 siblings and 2 parents that are no longer a part of my life, but they all love and adore my children, and I don’t want to destroy that. However, I honestly do not care if I ever hear from any of them again. I just don’t know what to do or where to go from here. My kids want to be active in the church, and I support them in it, but I don’t want them to hear negative and untrue things about me from my family members which will happen. What can I do?
PLEASE HELP!!
Thanks in advance.
Family relationships are throny indeed. I am sorry that the conversation turned bad.
In my mind, you need to have a serious conversation about boundaries.
Hypothetical conversation:
“Dad. I am sorry the way our conversation went, but some of the things you said were very damaging. I want to maintain good ties with the family but I am very uncomfortable discussing _______, ________, and ________. I respect your devotion and faith, but I need you guys to respect my adult decisions. They are not up for discussion. If you can agree not to cross _________ boundaries, then I would like to try and mend fences and continue to be involved with the family.”
Easier said than done. Visits with my parents are rough at times too.
Hey, wendell! Aren’t these family relationships great!?!
😳 👿 From an outsiders perspective, your dad was simply emotionally abusing you in an attempt to manipulate your thoughts, feelings, actions. Almost the exact same thing happened to me with my dad (and to a certain extent, my in-laws) and I did exactly what shadow said. I talked to my dad about why we needed to take a break from each other for awhile and that when that period had ended, we could talk about what we both want our relationship to be.
We took about six weeks without any contact (which was a big deal because we live five minutes away from each other) and, of course, he and my in-laws were having “bash swimordie garden parties”. All of which is fine. I took the break to discover where my feelings came from, recognizing his lame attempts of emotionally abusing me and accepting that I’m not gonna change him but I don’t need his approval. It was extremely liberating and we have maintained that level of mutual respect ever since (even though he brings up BYU football/basketball all the time, I just let him have that, if that’s what he needs)
As for your kids, it’s gonna happen. My SIL started grilling my son about his church attendance when she called him to wish him a happy b-day. Of course, he felt terrible because we had been going to church fairly inconsistently. btw, he was turning 10. So, my DW (it’s her sister) had to establish a boundary for her sister and, in turn, with my in-laws about what they can and can’t talk about with our boys. They’re pretty young so it’s not that big a deal. Teen and adult children would be difficult.
Ultimately, just as you can’t control what others say about you to your kids, you can’t control what your kids think about you, whether those people are saying anything or not. This is, imho, the most difficult aspect of co-dependency: that with our own kids. But, in reality it’s the same. If we’re trying to manage our own kids feelings, whether it’s about religion or how they feel about us, it’s co-dependent manipulation. Kids will have to sort it out which is why it’s so tricky. But, kids also base their feelings more on actual experience rather than gossip, fear-mongering, etc. So, your ability to be emotionally healthy, emotionally available, unconditionally loving, and appropriately supportive of them, will far outweigh anything they may hear from others.
It’s tough, tricky and takes time but, the path of long-term healthy relationships with anyone, including your kids, starts with your own journey towards emotional health, high self-esteem, and recovering from co-dependency. If you love yourself unconditionally, you will be emotionally available to your loved ones and this will be the bedrock of life-long healthy relationships.
Wendell, good to hear from you again. Sorry to hear about your last experience. I think you do need to stand up for yourself, and regardless of what your dad says, clarify that you do love your kids. Your kids need to know that too.
From my point of view (take it for what its worth realizing you know I only have glimpses into your situation from what you share with us here, but I feel I know you a little)…
I think maintaining family relationships is important, and I think you’d prefer to have good relationships if you can, right?
It takes effort from both parties to have a relationship, but cutting ties just because you disagree on divorce or the church or personal differences would be sad.
Emotions flare at times. I’d suggest you think about what you really want, and if in 5 yrs from now you want to have contact with your family and your Dad still, maybe you should try to make amends sooner rather than letting it set like cement.
I’m not saying you were wrong, but you expressed to us here on this forum:
Quote:I do not blame my Dad for this anymore than I blame myself, so please don’t think I am simply trying to get sympathy here. I was wrong and I know it
You may need to express that to your Dad and to your kids too. Regardless of what the topic is and what you disagree with your dad about, fact is: You love your kids. Period. That cannot be debated.
I think you can only tell your kids that important fact, but you can’t control what your family will do behind your back. Tell the honest truth to your kids as often as you can so they see that you love them so much that you get emotional if someone attacks that most important part of your life, them. Tell them what you really feel (not anything about your dad or siblings) so they don’t have to wonder what if what they hear from your family is true or not. They will know what is true and what is judgmental if they really know you and have a relationship with you.
And I think the relationships are worthwhile to work to keep.
You have overcome so much already in the recent past, but maybe God is still molding you for more things because you have shown you are strong enough to get through your trials. Keep that confidence with you. I wish you the best.
Heber13 wrote:You have overcome so much already in the recent past, but maybe God is still molding you for more things because you have shown you are strong enough to get through your trials.
This is extremely powerful in my opinion. There are things happening now that you may not have been ready for a year ago.
wendell wrote:Now I have 8 siblings and 2 parents that are no longer a part of my life
As all the others have implied, it would probably not be helpful to follow through on this sentiment. You had an embarrassing, painful, and mutually abusive blow-out, and the sooner you can offer your deep regrets and move forward, the better.
You are going to have to rely on all the unconditional love your family and you can muster now instead of relying on a false image they loved.
Quote:“We love him, because he first loved us.”
There is something deeply profound in that statement – especially when the standard roles are reversed (father and son), and the son is the one modeling real charity.
Read my posts on charity this month. The first manifestation encapsulates much of your situation right now:
Quote:“Charity suffereth long, and is kind.”
I am so happy for you Wendell when I hear an update and hear how far you have traveled down your own path. It totally sucks what happened. Everyone else already gave more good advice than I could add to. Family is important. Be the “mature” one and be in control of your relationship with various family members. Being the one to reach out and repair things is a great sign of strength. Strong people can admit they were wrong and not even depend on anything reciprocal from the others. My wife had to establish some firm boundaries with her mother many years ago. It was when we were newly married. She had to take some periods of “no contact” to set the boundaries. We even had to cut some visits short and leave early a few times. But in the long run, it resolved some long-standing and deep relationship problems between them. The effort was worth it.
Wendell, What everyone said is great! I especially liked what Brian said about being the stronger one and more Christlike one. My heart goes out to you but hopefully down the road, you will have a more honest and open relationship. Good luck!!!
Wendell…you are loved by many here (including ME!). This is a sad (but normal) part of our journey. Keep calm, know that you have our support, and let’s talk! Love you, man!
Wow that is hard. If your family is not adding anything to your life or if they do not bring you happiness than I would consider not having a relationship with them. If they keep talking bad about you to your kids I would tell your dad I am not going to bring my kids over to see you if you talk about me that way. I like what shadow of doubt said about discussing your feelings. That is a hard decision to make. Maybe if you do see him you can meet only in public places with your kids so that if he does talk about you your there and you are free to leave whenever you want..? Thank you all so much for your kind words and support. As you can all imagine, it has been an exceptionally tough couple of days for me, but I am starting to come to terms with some of it. I am going to sit down and write my Dad an e-mail sometime soon and share my feelings with him. I will let you know how it goes. Thank you all so much, Take care,
Wendell
Of all the things you could and do doubt, throw away the part about you being a bad father. That doesn’t even flirt with being true. MickFinn wrote:Of all the things you could and do doubt, throw away the part about you being a bad father. That doesn’t even flirt with being true.
I have been told my entire life that the only good Fathers are ones that do things EXACTLY the way that the Wendell’s do, so it’s tough to realize that being different would ever allow me to consider myself a “good Father”. Thanks though, and I am working on believing it.
wendell wrote:MickFinn wrote:Of all the things you could and do doubt, throw away the part about you being a bad father. That doesn’t even flirt with being true.
I have been told my entire life that the only good Fathers are ones that do things EXACTLY the way that the Wendell’s do, so it’s tough to realize that being different would ever allow me to consider myself a “good Father”. Thanks though, and I am working on believing it.
Okay, therapist hat on….
Wendell, my dear friend, consider the possibility that you are going through the stages of mourning…mourning your previous paradigm of life, purpose of life, “traditional Mormon family” life, and the status of all your relationships. Kubler-Ross described the stages of mourning the death of a close friend, but many have utilized her paradigm to include the transition one makes when making a major life change.
You are certainly doing that.
Of course in the end, it is you. It is your new journey. After the mourning, life will be normal and happy…most of the time. But until then, you will have bouts of denial, anger, sadness, doubt and reconsideration…and this is all a natural part of the process. Keep talking to people, keep expressing your feelings — they are neither right or wrong, they just are. The tears are like “blood-letting,” allowing the old to be replaced by the new.
Let us all be your sounding board. Many of us have been through similar pain and understand much of what you are feeling. Your true friends make no judgment about you. We love you no matter what.
Take care, my friend!
Hey Wendell, Bridget here. Sorry, I have not kept in touch. We are in the middle of packing and trying to move to Florida. Plus, I have been really sick and stressed out as well. I do understand the introspective time you have been going through. I have been doing the same in my own personal life. It’s interesting how difficult it is to do the ‘seek first to understand and then be understood’ thing. It is so typical of active members in the church to believe that if they just point out all the wonderful things about the church and gospel, that you will see the light and come around. Instead they should be asking you what has bothered you about the church and what you are going through. It’s just to painful for them and they also don’t want to hear it for fear it might rock their own boats. It wasn’t that long ago that my sister told me how upset my dad was when I left the church for a while about 15 years ago. My dad was so shook up and crying, asking my sister how this could happen when he thought he had raised me to have a strong testimony. The problem was that my dad had dedicated his life to doing genealogy and temple work and if the stuff I had shown him that had shaken my faith were true, then all his years of work would have been in vain. I admire you for keeping it all to yourself for so long and being so patient with your family. I know how members and family get though when you upset them. They become accusatory and that you must be doing alot of sinning to have lost the spirit so much. This IS so awful and I can imagine how much this must have upset you. So, much anger builds up over time and sometimes we just have to let it all out. It’s like a time bomb and the explosion is an ugly mess. I hope that there will be perspective in time and that people will try to understand each other better.
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