- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I love the people at Open Mormon, and have met some of the main people in person (Claire Eden, Cheryl Bruno, etc.). Great folks. I am never quite sure what to make of all of their activity over there. I was curious what you all think. This was prompted by two recent themes over there:
1. They always seem to want to recruit on a wide scale for their “private” and secret forum.
When I was still an Admin at OM, I tried to push the idea that they were a really cool “think tank” kind of platform where all kinds of interesting folks in Internet and Alternative Mormonism could come together and communicate. They never seemed to dig that. It always seemed like a viable way to find a niche in the “market” with their platform though.
On some level StayLDS competes with them in the arena of wanting to reach out and help people. They are stuck though because they can’t reach the thousands and thousands of people and remain private. I don’t see a way around that. The real names and real pictures are what makes the forum unique. Otherwise, they just become another NOM.
2. They are talking about another blog and asking for volunteers.
I really don’t understand how their new idea is any different than MormonMatters, or why all those people volunteering to produce content couldn’t produce it for MM. I didn’t really see anyone here jumping on the bandwagon. I personally feel pretty tapped out between StayLDS, FacesEast and sometimes trying to write for MM.
I was curious what you all think, those who still visit and participate over at OM.
P.S. They seem to spend an enormous amount of energy suggesting possibilities for someone (else) to put into action, and asking if anyone wants to hold votes on the direction.
Honestly, I see them as a bunch of bored High Priests (and Priestesses) who want to change the world – and are about as effective as most Priesthood committees. 
I must say that I thought Open Mormon was just too negative for my tastes. I haven’t logged on for quite some time. It seems like a whine-fest to me. I like Stay LDS better. I agree with that, MH – completely. Personally, I’m not a big fan of StayLDSers moving to OM. The other way around is different. Each site or forum is a new social network, and ideas & social norms are created by that network. The risk is that people who enjoy reveling in victimhood will begin to be sold on self-reinforcing negative norms rather than considering more positive ideas. This is one reason that I think Andrew A’s hiatus from OM & blogging is probably a good thing for him. It reestablishes his social norms. You can spend time in OM and begin to think that those pesky irritations are all that there is. If there was a site dedicated to complaining about your spouse, it would have the same effect. I honestly like everyone at OM, and I’m personally not as prone to get sucked in by whining. Here are the pros and cons of each social network:
–
OM. Pro: Leans intellectual, so some of the discussions are interesting and possibly enlightening. Con: The normative assumption is that the church is not what it claims to be rather than a more introspective approach about why people have reached the conclusions they have or what false assumptions they had created. On a bad day, OM can really be a wallowing pit. And I am very put off by activism, which is a social norm there. I don’t like it at church either, BTW, or pretty much anywhere. –
StayLDS. Pro: People who come to the site theoretically want to “stay LDS” to some extent. They seek advice on how to make it work. It ends up being sort of a group advice column. Con: Cyclical conversation. There are only so many reasons people will get to this point and these are going to be the same conversations over and over. Eventually, it feels like being on a mission you never get released from. I suppose it is. –
NOM. Pro: Loads of people there, and the mods are smart and interesting. It’s a better alternative to FLAK or RFM. Con: The assumption is that you’ve finally figured out that the church isn’t true, so it’s time to move on with your life. But in the meantime, let’s trash everyone and everything, except ourselves because introspection might lead to personal growth and most people on NOM just want to vent and feel validated. I don’t log onto OM much anymore, so I can’t say much about what happens there. Hawk, I like your summary. I have thought similar things about StayLDS. Sometimes I would love for it to be able to work more like an escalator – where groups of people could advance together to another area of discussion, but it seems people come for a while to get the gist of what they think we’re about – then they seem to move on and we get the next batch of newcomers. I don’t know, I guess that’s good. Maybe the blogs and other forums are a better place to have the other conversations.
I’ll jump in here, as I’m trying more and more to come back to the community. I joined OM recently and really kind of wish I hadn’t. It’s not that I don’t like the people, it’s more about the lack of anonymity. Anyway, here’s my two cents. StayLDS works very well for me. I need a place where I can objectively critique the church and culture, but find a way to improve myself amidst that critique. OM is fine for the former, but lacks on the latter. I feel that StayLDS is great for the latter, but sometimes a bit apologist when it comes to critique. Of the two, I prefer the StayLDS because I am most interested in personal growth. But in the past, I have often felt that it is important to allow people to vent and feel vindicated to an extent, as long as it is transformed into personal growth, and sometimes we put the kabosh on this a little too quickly.
However, I also recognize that I hide behind a mask of anonymity, and am thus immune from action by the church, or my family. Some of us aren’t in that situation, and in a culture which tends to punish those who think too far outside the box, this fear seems reasonable.
I posted a couple of times at OM, but found myself not generally interested in the discussion there. I think our relationship with OM should probably diverge a bit at this point as we further define ourselves as personal growth oriented, and less about church criticism.
My two cents… I have no experience on Open Mormon, but based on your comments, I doubt I would join even if invited.
NOM to me is too negative, and I even sent PMs to Ray and Brian a few weeks ago about it because I tried to express my thoughts in some conversations over there, and I really felt I was swimming upstream. People there seem to have found the church wasn’t the Santa Claus story they were taught as youngins…so all is lost, vent, and start saying things that have been pent up too long (as if saying a few curse words and sipping new beverages in life really meant new freedoms). It didn’t lead to personal growth for me…just seemed like a few people venting on their way out of the church, and they all laugh and pat themselves on the back while doing it.
StayLDS was the most refreshing for me because my family is still so rooted in church, that I wanted to find ways to reconcile things and stay in, but have someone to openly discuss things with. My attitude changed over a year’s time until I was finally more relaxed and see I don’t have to over-react and leave. It was a great “safety net” for me to catch me and turn me around before I went down a path I really didn’t need to go down. Having said that, once I got past stage 4 angst…I found StayLDS repeating topics and left me wanting for something else to stimulate my studies. What did keep bringing me back is the personal touch StayLDS brings. It is touching to read personal stories and how people feel, without really establishing what’s right or wrong. That I liked. Still do.
I like Orson’s idea of making it a “escalator” approach. But I don’t have any ideas how you do that. It seems it is there for people initially in crisis and provides them a revolving door to slow people down, and allow some to return to the faith thoughtfully while others can exit peacefully realizing others go through the same things.
Perhaps instead of trying to be all things to all people, StayLDS should stay what it is…and be there to help those initially in crisis with the idea they will one day “graduate” and move on to other forums that fit their unique needs, just like university students graduate having learned some tools, and then go off in their own directions in the world to apply those tools or build on them as they have the desire and capacity to do so.
I feel I can be more involved in Mormon Stories 2nd Ward, and MM for personal growth, but I like to remain involved in this mission to help others who went through what I did, and still learn new perspectives from the new groups that come through.
Heber13 – so MoSto 2nd Ward is essentially the same type of thing as OM, IMO – leans negative and away from personal growth. Yet I do find people tend to move on from StayLDS – I think in a positive direction, though. I feel good about it. The OM blog idea, IMO, is not of interest to me. Sounds just like MM – why duplicate? Basically, no matter where I participate, I’m bringing more or less the same type of persona. Heber, I hear ya. I think StayLDS is a place that people should “graduate” from and move on to more spiritual development. I agree that some topics get recycled here; I find that for my personal growth I need my blog to talk about whatever moves me. I appreciate the community here, and I feel a real kinship to all of the other moderators here. I feel anxiously engaged in a good cause.
Speaking of Open Mormon, I just openly told my wife tonight about blogging here, MM, and my blog MH. I’ve been blogging for 2 years now, and have been hiding my blogging from her. I have to say that when Ray first invited me to guest blog at Mormon Matters, I was so excited but feared telling my wife because I didn’t know how she would feel about me blogging there. The only person who knew about my blogging was my brother, because he helped me set up my MH blog.
Anyway, I told her about all three blogs, and she was really cool with it–especially StayLDS. She’s much more conservative than I am, and isn’t fond of all my questions about church history, but it is nice to start coming out of the closet a bit.
YEAH!!! That’s neat to hear, my friend. Wow, big steps MH! I’m glad it went well. My wife recently started reading MM (she knows I blog there). She actually has been very complimentary lately of my posts. MH, that’s very encouraging to hear the response of your wife. I’m still in the situation where she can’t talk to me about it, because she lumps all my readings, and my new views as anti-mormon and says I’ve been influenced by negative people. (She hasn’t taken time to actually read anything you all have posted or she’d change her mind, because you all are really positive). Perhaps someday soon my wife and I can get to the point you are in where it can be talked about openly and she understands where I’m coming from. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Eu and Heber. I’ve been trying to follow Ray’s example; being more tactful in church and trying to soften things a bit (but it’s really hard for me Ray). My church activity hasn’t moderated in the least (except I bring a book to church and skip Sunday School quite a bit.) I’ve tried hard not to burden her with information she doesn’t want to hear, and I think that has helped. mormonheretic wrote:Thanks Eu and Heber. I’ve been trying to follow Ray’s example; being more tactful in church and trying to soften things a bit (but it’s really hard for me Ray).
Well, you’re in good company. In my last ward I was at a pretty good place with doing just this. But in our new ward I get too frustrated to say anything constructive. I usually end up walking out, or sitting and fuming! It’s a difficult tightrope to walk.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.