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I posted a month ago about why I thought I could stay in the church. You can view the thread below. http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1163 Now the interesting thing. Since I have made the decision to take the church on my terms to a degree I have felt better spiritually than ever in my life. When I know I do not have to take every bit of doctrine and cram it into my otherwise logical brain I find enjoyment. I find more pleasure being with my wife, I love my kids more, I am concerned about everyone more. I have become so fascinated with learning new and other points of view. This is so contrary to the teaching you get in the church of how if you are not completely obedient you will suffer the consequences and be miserable. I am not miserable I am free.
I wonder if any other have felt this going through the journey.
I totally felt the same way. It’s not really true belief if you’re forcing yourself to believe, I found. It got to the point where I couldn’t feel spiritually sound, nor truly moral, by believing and practicing certain things – so I just let it go, and I feel much more free and “okay” with myself. I feel much more like a moral human being and less like a soldier trying to stay in line. Obedience doesn’t make someone moral, in my opinion. Forcing yourself to believe doesn’t make you a better believer. Doing what you believe is RIGHT, no matter what –
that’swhat makes you moral. This thread makes me happy. High fives, Cadence and Maple Leaf. It is very great to be free to learn and grow with the brick wall torn down. “let them worship how, when and what they may” applies to us and members, as well. Iow, what Tom said.
Yup. That’s exactly how I feel Cadence. I am so happy for you. There is a light at the end of the long, dark tunnel, the “dark night of the soul.” (whether someone stays in the Church or finds their self elsewhere). We just as easily could have named this site “EnjoyLDS,” perhaps that would be more accurate. It’s not about staying in the Church (at all costs). It’s about finding experiences like you described, being free and doing what makes us spiritual and close to the Divine. People can find this place of peace, of being “born again,” within the LDS Church. It’s there.
This is great – thanks for sharing your insights. I think this is how many find enjoyment in the church. (I admit I am also a sucker for your alternate-Universe Spock avatar – good choice!)
Brian Johnston wrote:We just as easily could have named this site “EnjoyLDS,” perhaps that would be more accurate.
Brian, you are totally busted, because I am totally taking that seriously. EnjoyLDS is an incredibly radical and wonderful name. Though, yes, I understand it doesn’t quite roll off the search engine tongue as well as StayLDS.
Enjoy LDS. Seriously, there must be some way we can incorporate that into something. Brainstorm session! I ENJOY STAYING LDSThat has been the spirit of this forum, I think. Not just stay and endure it painfully…but find a way to stay and enjoy it.
That should be a part of the home page or something.
I don’t think most TBM’s would get what we are talking about though. We understand what that scripture “And the truth shall set you free’ means more than most. When you are an independent thinker who really wants to do the right thing and know the truth, you do question things and sort out what does not work. This is why I like that admonision by Paul to ‘prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.” It is freeing to know that we don’t have to hold on to stuff that just hasn’t worked for us but not have to ‘throw the baby out with the bath water.’ But its really difficult for alot of members to ‘get’ us. Like, right now for example, my husband is not active in the church. He just does not have a testimony. Nevertheless he is calmer and happier than he has ever been before and our marriage is so much better because of it. He was in the stake high council when he left the church two years ago and his friends in the church ask me about how we are doing all the time. They just can’t seem to handle that we are really doing not only good, but better than ever. They really expected our lives to become miserable and for everything to fall apart when he left the church. In fact, it was funny because recently our old bishop told me that he just does not believe we are happier with my husband not being active. They really expect that you are secretly living a life of sin and will suffer a great loss of the spirit and become an apostate who will fight against the church. My husband has nothing against the church and still wishes it were true, but he just does not have a testimony right now that is the one and only true church. Most people in the church like to live their lives with this attitude that its either all true or all false. It is easier to live in their black and white world rather than live life based on principles.
bridget_night wrote:They just can’t seem to handle that we are really doing not only good, but better than ever. They really expected our lives to become miserable and for everything to fall apart when he left the church. In fact, it was funny because recently our old bishop told me that he just does not believe we are happier with my husband not being active. They really expect that you are secretly living a life of sin and will suffer a great loss of the spirit and become an apostate who will fight against the church.
That is great!!!
I think this affirms what Hawkgrrrl stated a while back…what they say and do is about them, not about you. It seems that is a defense mechanism others engage that helps them reinforce that these things they believe in strongly apply to others, even if others don’t realize it.
I love that…having someone tell you “you really aren’t as happy as you think you are…you’d be happier if you were more like the rest of us”.
😯 Heber13 wrote:I
ENJOY STAYING LDSThat has been the spirit of this forum, I think. Not just stay and endure it painfully…but find a way to stay and enjoy it.
That should be a part of the home page or something.
Heber13, your post (thanks to Brian) resolves for me a dissonance I have had ever since I started participating at this site. And I’d like to believe it’s a dissonance shared by the three moderators who are regular contributors. The problem is that the mission of the site has been, or historically was, expressed in terms that, while appearing to try to avoid suggesting we are here looking to recover our testimony, end up kind of implying it in the end. This enjoying bit Brian has forwarded seems to me to have promise for resolving that dissonance. We are all here to recover something. It isn’t our old testimony. It is our old enjoyment. In fact, we are looking for greater enjoyment than ever before! Wow! That’s what Stay LDS is all about!
Quote:We are all here to recover something. It isn’t our old testimony. It is our old enjoyment.
Well said, and I would also say it’s not a recovery site in the traditional sense – this is a site to help people build something new and different. It could be a new belief paradigm, a new perspective, or a new reason to enjoy being LDS.
True. It isn’t really our old enjoyment. It is a new enjoyment. enjoyWhat a beautiful word.
My ancient email signature (from the early 1990’s at
hawstom@juno.com ) used to say (emphasis added):Tom Haws
From Arizona since 1890
Enjoying it hot. Enjoying it rugged. Enjoying it faithful. Enjoying it fruitful. You are right Heber about it being a defense mechnism. I had to laugh with my visiting teacher, who happens to be a good friend as well, when she told me not to get up in a fast and testimony meeting and say that. She said if you do, we might loose half the men in our ward. They have to defend what they believe or else their world would fall apart. We have already gone through the ‘falling apart’ stage (and it is scary) but we have found that God still loves us. I know when my husband first left the church, he wondered if God would not love him anymore. I simply said, “Well, all 3 of our kids have left the church and do you not love them still the same?” I asked if him a God would condemn us for questioning and trying to figure out why something was just not working for us. Isn’t learning by trial and error part of the earthly experience? Sometimes I think religion really produces a God that is pretty awful and frightening. Parenthood has taught me that if God is a perfect Parent then he must love us a 100 times more and better than we love our kids. bridget_night wrote:We have already gone through the ‘falling apart’ stage (and it is scary) but we have found that God still loves us. I know when my husband first left the church, he wondered if God would not love him anymore. I simply said, “Well, all 3 of our kids have left the church and do you not love them still the same?” I asked if him a God would condemn us for questioning and trying to figure out why something was just not working for us. Isn’t learning by trial and error part of the earthly experience?
I really Love your perspective Bridget. Thanks for your loving and peaceful demeanor exhibited in your posts!Elder Oaks’ general conference talk raised some of these issues about parents loving “wayward” children.
He seemed to think you can’t go too extreme in either direction. Love them, but still have boundaries for accepting or supporting their lifestyle.
I have thought a lot of that lately. I will just have to decide how to do that as my kids get older, but I couldn’t ever imagine not loving my kids…but if they start doing something harmful (drugs), I won’t just pat them on the back either.
Did you read that article? What was your take?
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