Any advice on coming out to girlfriend?

You best get all this worked out long before you get married, or even engaged. If you do not you are most likely going to be in for a very rocky marriage that neither of you bargained for. My best advice is tell her soon and tell her as much as you think she can handle without going into details. If she is receptive you can go further. If she is not it may be painful but I would not try and force the issue but walk away. Do not convince yourself that some day she will come around and everything will be alright. This could happen but most likely not. Remember it is always easier to change yourself than change someone else. IF you are unwilling to become the perfect TBM she is less likely to become more agnostic as you put it. Religion can be one of the most divisive issues in any marriage next to maybe money, so do not handicap yourself going in.

Good luck but remember you have your whole life ahead of you. Do your best to make sure you spend it with someone you are compatible with.

Very good advice Cookie!

I would try real hard not to push any agenda of your own. Try to let things flow as naturally as possible. I like to lean on “uncertainty”, and “don’t know” or “unsure”, even “trying to figure out.” Remember the saying: “He who thinks he knows – doesn’t.”

In my opinion I think it’s fine, even expected of all good members to be searching for answers. Ideally there shouldn’t be a problem with “I have a hard time understanding/grasping…” when it’s done sincerely, softly, and without any agenda.

I think she has a right to get a feel for where you actually are. I think you owe it to the both of you to not be more certain than definable truth will allow.

Glad you found us!

One of the most reviled quotes of modern Mormonism on anti-sites and group discussion boards for disaffected members is Elder Packer’s about not all truth being useful. (my paraphrase) I understand the angst that causes among those who want everything to be black-and-white, but it is absolutely true and wise in many situations – and what you describe is one of those times.

My take on your questions is going to be a bit different than most, and it is only my take on it. Take it for what it’s worth.

You need to ask yourself one question, imo:

Do you love her enough to lay down your life for her?

I don’t mean “die for her” – since that actually is relatively easy. I mean take the life you would choose to live in isolation and set it aside for her. I mean commit to remain actively involved in the LDS Church if that is what she needs. I mean sort out your issues and your perspective and focus on changing yourself – perhaps to someone who can come to “believe” in a way, perhaps to someone who can’t “believe” but can support and sustain.

Dumping all your concerns on her is wrong – period – unless you know she shares those concerns. You don’t, so don’t. It will hurt her, and it won’t be done out of love. “I love you, so I am going to hurt you” is hogwash, pure and simple. This isn’t about her; it’s about you – and until you accept that, whatever path you take to discuss it will the wrong one.

I’m NOT saying you have to lie or disguise anything for her; I’m saying you have to commit to finding a way to reconcile activity in the Church with her IF you really do love her with all your heart. It is not going to be easy – not at all, so you have to decide first if she is worth it – if she is worth what the concept of an eternal marriage is all about.

My wife doesn’t want to deal with the nuances of most of my heterodoxy. She knows when someone says something with which I strongly disagree, and I know what things I can mention openly and candidly to our children – but I NEVER cross the line and try to convince her or them to see things the way I see them and not how she sees them. I don’t want her to do that to me, so I don’t do that to her. We have a wonderful marriage, largely because we just don’t care about seeing everything the exact same way – as long as we always are hand-in-hand even when we are looking at the same thing differently.

nightwalden, I didn’t say hide it all – and the commitment to stay with someone no matter what (almost) and do everything possible to not hurt them is not only for married couples.

What I’m saying is to know (to the best of one’s ability) what she needs and provide it – IF scotty truly, madly, deeply loves her. If he doesn’t love her enough to be the man she needs, then he shouldn’t marry her. He should let her find the man she needs.

I really do believe that this type of commitment (symbolized in a “sealing”) means something – and also that 100% openness about everything right from the start would lead to no marriages ever (or maybe only one or two between siblings, and that isn’t healthy). 😮

Perhaps this will come as a surprise to Ray (on such an issue), but in this case I absolutely agree with him.

Here are my thoughts (I’m writing this under the premise that she is TBM):

1. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT get married under the pretense that you are a TBM. This could be the demise of your marriage from the start. In my opinion, Mormons get married for two primary reasons (usually combination of the two). They love someone, and that someone is a strong member of the church. If the latter is even close to as large a contributing factor as the former, you will encounter great heartache (unless you’re a TBM). This is what happened to me and it has nearly destroyed my marriage. Get married because you love someone, period. Same goes for her, obviously.

2. In the vein of number 1, DO NOT destroy her faith with your concerns. You absolutely should tell her the truth, but this need not involve a lengthy discussion of all the anti-Mormon talking points. If you really love her, I see that you have two options. Either marry her under the pretense of being TBM and forget about your own personal honesty (or otherwise become comfortable enough with the church to act TBM), or break off the relationship after explaining that you have some views that are not in harmony with the church’s teachings, and that you are uncertain about your future in the church. Since the former contradicts number 1, I would suggest the latter. The only caveat would be if you are at a place where you have chosen to remain LDS, can live comfortably in the society as a heretic, and can commit to doing that for life without destroying your wife’s faith (basically you better darn well be a very comfortable stage 5 Mormon to go through with the marriage).

3. You are at a volatile place right now. Your outlook on the church will likely not be the same a year from now. You may decide to leave, or you may decide to pursue an inward path and remain in the community. In either case, I would not even broach the subject of marriage under such volatile conditions. Do yourself (and her) a favor and wait.

4. If it were me, I would simply say that you have some concerns about the views, doctrines, and theologies of the church, and that you are uncertain about your long term status therein. Reassure her that you are worthy (if you are) as that will likely be important to her, but that you have other concerns. You then might give her the option of whether or not she wants to continue in the relationship.

Tricky situation. I don’t envy you. But trust me, please, I beg of you, it will NOT get better after marriage, and marriage is a HUGE commitment, and the LDS church is a HUGE part of marriage for Mormons.

I would like to add that you should tell her how you feel, with LOVE. It may challenge your relationship but the only way, IMO, to have a relationship that will last is to be open and honest with each other. There are 5 billion people on the planet, why not be sure that she is the one that you can share everything with.

Hey everyone, thanks so much for all of the great advice. You’ve definitely given me lots to think about going into this.

Something interesting happened last night. It had only been a few hours after I made my first post on this topic and I was over at GF’s after work. She’s been sick so we were just relaxing and she mentioned that she had come across a blog post from one of her old friends in high school. GF wanted me to read the post and tell her what I thought. Believe it or not, this post was about her friend’s spiritual journey and how this girl had left the church for a while and then came back, but as a skeptic who still didn’t agree with the church on many issues. The friend mentioned that she had read some anti-mormon literature online and talked about a few of the things she had learned. After reading through, I agreed with some of her points (the girl mentioned a couple of things in church history which don’t sit well with me and also talked about how she dislikes the church calling itself “the one true church”). However, she also blamed her hypocritical roommates and bishop as reasons for her disbelief in the church.

I finished the post and decided to feel things out with GF. I asked her, “why did you want me to read that?” I was secretly hoping that she might say something about how she had been having similar concerns and wanted to talk about it. However she said “I just think she’s stupid for writing a post like that. She obviously hasn’t really thought things through since she’s letting the behavior of other people drive her from the church.” She didn’t mention anything about the historical/doctrinal points. I pointed these out and she just said “well, of course that’s going to be an issue when she gets information from a biased source (referring to the “anti-mormon” sites). You can’t trust anything like that.” I just sighed and decided to let it go. (We were both tired and it didn’t feel like the right time to bring up my true feelings about the church, as she was already defensive). I came home and read some of your comments about how hard it is to go into marriage pretending to be something you’re not. After that conversation, I couldn’t agree more.

We’re going out of town next week and should have some time alone. I think I’ll have a talk with her then. I’m not looking forward to it, but everyone’s comments here have made me understand that it’s really necessary. I just don’t want to hurt her more than I have to. Wish me luck.