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I’m interested strictly from a historical point of view. I have always questioned why the changes to the W of W are not so readily available to members of the church. Meaning the change from council to commandment and explanation of things in it like hot drinks being tea and coffee. I have researched and discovered that the W of W was presented before the body of the church in 1851 during general conference that all Saints formally covenant to keep it. The proposal was unanimously upheld. If anyone knows any information as to when strong drinks was accepted as meaning alcoholic drinks and when hot drinks was accepted as meaning tea and coffee, who made the statement and when, I’d be very interested in knowing. Also if anyone has any info on “using meat sparingly” I’d muchly appreciated that. I have a father who has interpreted “And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. ” To mean that you should always eat meat. He tries hard not to have a meal that does not have some meat in it. I know this sounds absurd but that’s my Dad for ya.
🙄 I’m just concerned about his health as he is getting older in years and the fact that he has very negative feeling towards one of my sisters who is a vegetarian.Thanks,
Footing
I know that coffee and tea as hot drinks is attributed to Hyrum Smith due to a statement he made, or at least that is what I recall. I am going to have to think where I read that. Here’s a wikipedia link that seems accurate, and doesn’t seem biased. My understanding is that it was Hyrum Smith who alluded to it first in this way (I have seen the quote but not sure where to look for it now). However, it really became institutionalized under Heber J. Grant’s presidency. He was VERY against alcohol, and thereby pushed the WoW very heavily.
Members of Community of Christ (our sister sect, formerly RLDS) do drink coffee and tea; they just let them properly cool before they drink. 
Wow Hawkgirl…interesting that you would think of the Community of Christ as “our sister sect”. Let’s see…women in the priesthood, paid clergy, etc. So..that makes the fundamentalist sects , who are probably much closer to the mainstream church in doctrine … ? Chopped liver ? Anyway, that’s probably a discussion best taken elsewhere…
I did notice in pictures of the TX raid on the FLDS that there were Mr. Coffees in some families’ homes. And they are Very strict.
The AUB members that I am familiar with usually don’t drink coffee or tea but it probably wouldn’t be considered a big deal if someone wanted to…as long as it didn’t become an addiction or have any adverse health effects.
Various independent fundamentalists have, well, varying degrees of compliance but none seem to make as much of a “rightousness measuring stick” out of it as the mainstream church.
I think when David Whitmer was excommunicated, the High Council used coffee as part of the reason he was not a worthy member…so there were standards going way back to the 1840s, though like many things in the early church it was not consistently understood or enforced (as JS and BY were reported as not always adhering to it according to the standard we have today). hawkgrrrl wrote:I also don’t personally exclude tiramisu, coffee ice cream or herbal infusions, although some do.
I had a mission companion scold me for buying Coffee cake.“Elder, its the appearance of evil you should avoid!” is what he told me in a fatherly-idiotic way.
I remember taking a bite in front of him, and replying, “Oh, but its soooo good.” in a very child-like and idiotic way.
😈 I like my morning hot chocolate so I can hang out with co-workers in the break area.
I think
common senseshould also be added to the word of wisdom standards. Quote:Wow Hawkgirl…interesting that you would think of the Community of Christ as “our sister sect”. Let’s see…women in the priesthood, paid clergy, etc. So..that makes the fundamentalist sects , who are probably much closer to the mainstream church in doctrine … ? Chopped liver ?
Bruce in Montana – your criticism is right on, so thanks for that. I suppose I do have a bias there, thinking of CoC as a “sister sect,” but I probably think of the FLDS as a “crazy uncle sect.” That is really about my own biases and interpretations, I know, and your view that fundamentalism has clear ties to our roots and has had less change / liberalization is well-founded.
Quote:I had a mission companion scold me for buying Coffee cake.
That’s like scolding you for buying a coffee table. There’s no coffee in coffe cake; it’s just meant to be served with coffee. Ridiculous!
It’s ok HawkGirl, The vast majority of fundamentalists think of the FLDS as a “crazy uncle sect” as well…
😆 It has always puzzled me that mormons in general have never moved toward a more vegetarian diet, like the Seventh Day Adventists…especially in light of Joseph Smith admonishing the brethren to not kill rattlesnakes. His attitude seemed to be that we should progress to the point that we do no harm to the “brute creation”.
It’ s just something that has never caught on..yet.
findingmyownfooting wrote:I have a father who has interpreted “And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. ” To mean that you should always eat meat.”
Well I think the best argument might be to brush up on his English gramar
😯 Actually, in the original texts, the comma wasn’t there between “used” and “only” but I don’t want to digress.
As currently printed, the commas separate the phrases like this:
[God speaking] “It is pleasing unto me that they should not be used” [COMMA] this is the break in the idea. You could end the sentence right there, but the revelation goes on with a couple of exceptions to clarify God’s position.
Next to clarify this idea more specifically, God introduces an exception: “only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.” The meaning one would normally take is that when humans find themselves in a situation where there are no other options but to eat meat, it is acceptable for survival. God’s preference though is that meat should not be eaten.
To support this, the verse right before it says animals are provided for man, but “they are to be used SPARINGLY” (like in famine or in seasons where vegetables can not be grown)
And 2 verses later, the same overall concept is reinforced another time quite clearly: God made animals (meat) for the use of man “only in times of famine and excess hunger.” (D&C 89:15)
This has bothered me too. Are we allowed broth, cocoa, Ovaltine etc? Or even dandelion root? I was actually recommended barleycup by someone as a coffee substitute, but it tastes disgusting!
On the other hand, cold/iced tea and coffee are not “hot drinks” but are out of bounds.
The bit about tobacco in the WoW has me puzzled too, but I suppose I’ve never smoked, so it’s not a problem. What about medicinal alcohol too? If I get a bad toothache, swishing some whiskey around the area around seems to get rid of the pain, but I don’t know if that’s wrong or not.
Good points Sam, Brigham Young certainly used, and spoke positively about, the medicinal qualities of a little brandy. Of course, they didn’t have Nyquil back then..
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