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Reality is your nirvana.” Ignorance or lack of enlightenment is what makes you needlessly feel lesser than. (PBS “The Buddha”) I think this idea aligns nicely with our Mormon concept that we are all children of God, but it hit me from an angle that I hadn’t considered before.
I like it, Orson. Thanks! Orson wrote:Quote:“
Reality is your nirvana.” Ignorance or lack of enlightenment is what makes you needlessly feel lesser than. (PBS “The Buddha”) I think this idea aligns nicely with our Mormon concept that we are all children of God, but it hit me from an angle that I hadn’t considered before.
I served my mission in Japan in the late 70s. I remember studying basic Buddhism to understand the way they thought there. It was so strange to me then, but about 15 years later, I found myself completely aligning myself with many concepts. What I struggled to accept then (different view of spirituality, God, pre and post earth-life, right and wrong…) I find myself believing more than Judeo-Christianity (and traditional Mormonism) today.
Thanks for reminding me of this, Orson!
Oh good, I was hoping to post something on Buddhism soon, and my experiences with it. On the obvious side, a lot of Buddhist ethics and so on tie in with Mormonism.
However, there are some very different things about Buddhism. For one, the Buddha said, “nothing is permanent”. Which is also put in Buddhism and Hinduism as “all things must pass” (George Harrison fans will know this phrase!). This
doesn’ttie in well with “families are forever”, eternal progression or an eternal God. In a bizarre way, both notions can help with bereavement, but they contradict each other pretty strongly. Other major differences include notions of celibacy, monasticism, mantras and so on.
The LDS also lack Buddhist style meditation. I actually think they’re missing something
Buddhism is full of lists and numbers. Here are the Five Precepts of Buddhism. The ones that agree completely with the LDS have a (Y) before them.
* To refrain from taking life (non-violence towards sentient life forms), or ahimsā
* (Y) To refrain from taking that which is not given (not committing theft)
* (Y – pretty much) To refrain from sensual (including sexual) misconduct
* (Y) To refrain from lying (speaking truth always)
* (Y) To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness (specifically, drugs and alcohol)
The first one is not completely observed by the LDS since they are not always vegetarian, maybe serve in the military etc. I think the church authorities would probably take a dim view of animal cruelty though.
Here are the three bits Eight Precepts,
6. To refrain from eating at the wrong time (only eat from sunrise to noon)
7. To refrain from dancing and playing music, wearing jewelry and cosmetics, attending shows and other performances
8. To refrain from using high or luxurious seats and bedding
Nah, can’t quite see these fitting in completely with Mormonism, although they’re by no means contradictory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths 1 There is suffering (dukkha).
2 There is a cause of suffering (craving).
3 There is the cessation of suffering (nirvana).
4 There is the eightfold path leading to the cessation of suffering.
The notion here is that life is always going to be unsatisfying in some regard, that life is suffering, and that we are to eliminate any notions of karma. (Mormonism has something like Karma in its notions of how pre-mortal existence affects us, I suppose). Suffering in the COJCOLDS is viewed very differently in my experience.
Nirvana is very different from anything in Mormonism. It is not a form of Heaven at all (as many westerners think). However some Buddhists have the notion of a Pure Land, which ties in somewhat with the Celestial Kingdom.
Some missionaries were visiting me yesterday, and saw I had a book on Buddhism. They said, “Buddhism is inspired by the Devil” to me. I explained that I’d never considered myself one, but that I had just learnt a bit about it, and studied meditation. Now maybe there are devilish bits of Buddhism (check out the Shugden cult for example), but I find it hard to believe it all comes from the Devil…
Orson wrote:Quote:“
Reality is your nirvana.” Ignorance or lack of enlightenment is what makes you needlessly feel lesser than. (PBS “The Buddha”) Thanks for sharing. I’ve been struggling with the stress of comparing & this quote is helpful.
SamBee wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths 1 There is suffering (dukkha).
2 There is a cause of suffering (craving).
3 There is the cessation of suffering (nirvana).
4 There is the eightfold path leading to the cessation of suffering.
The notion here is that life is always going to be unsatisfying in some regard, that life is suffering, and that we are to eliminate any notions of karma.
Buddhists do believe in karma, right? Karma seems to be the law of cause & effect, spiritually, but can be thought of as supersitious. I think all religions have similar belief. (ie, If you pay your tithing, then you’ll be blessed.)
I’ve wondered about craving – & expectations. It seems that such is the cause of suffering. As implied in the quote above, we are complete as is, we only need to realize it. Yet, I have this miraculous thing, called a body that is very dependent on air, water, food, safety etc. I crave those things & there’s no way of getting around it, is there?
From a non-physical perspective, I crave love, connection, achievement. I could try not to, but I’d only be fooling myself, wouldn’t I? Are we truly complete in ourselves, spiritually – or do we need others? I can see how being dependent on anything for our happiness could make us vulnerable to suffering, but aren’t the most passionate accomplishments & connections based on craving?
They believe in karma but don’t like caste. However, not unlike Mormonism this has led to some unseemly theories about why some people are born with horrible diseases, disability or into certain ethnic groups. I have read something from a Sri Lankan Buddhist suggesting the Holocaust was as a result of Jewish arrogance for believing themselves to be the Chosen People. All well and fine if you’re an arrogant Zionist supremacist, but not so fine if you just happened to be a small bit tailor living in Warsaw etc around sixty years ago, who happened to be Jewish. Sam, Do you believe in karma?
Featherina wrote:Sam,
Do you believe in karma?
No, not in the classic sense. But there is a kind of this “reap and you shall sow” thing in the world to an extent IMO. It doesn’t mean every evil thing which happens is a punishment for another evil act though. I think thalidomide babies are the result of bad medicine, rather than the result of certain actions taken before this life. I also think class and poverty tends to be a man made thing, and not pre-ordained in the sense that some would have it.
Bad things happen to good and bad alike, although bad people often do seem to come to a sticky end, which is not always manmade.
Likewise, if Los Angeles were to have a massive earthquake, and suffers for it, I think it would be because of the fact that it’s built on a faultline, not because of certain lifestyle choices. On the other hand, if there are big fires, riots or crimewaves in the city of LA, then yes, I would point that down to evil acts, and their consequences.
I certainly agree with the Buddhist notion that actions (and thoughts) have consequences, but that not every consequence is the result of individual action.
That makes sense, Sam. But I also wonder about the connectedness, spiritually. We can’t see all of that… I don’t think the past lives payback makes sense, but I do think what we do in this life does have effects…including spiritual effects. I’m not sure, because I’m still learning about karma, but it seems to work in terms of intent & connection with others. I read that Jesus may have believed in karma, which is why he told people to turn the other cheek…not to be a doormat, but because what we give out comes back to us. I watched that PBS show on Buddhism (It was long!) It helped me with a brighter light bulb moment.
My favorite Buddha teaching from the PBS program…. The path to enlightenment lay along the Middle Way“Fair goes the dancing when the Sitar is tuned.Tune us the Sitar neither high nor low,
And we will dance away the hearts of men.
But the string too tight breaks, and the music dies.
The string too slack has no sound, and the music dies.
There is a middle way.
Tune us the Sitar neither low nor high.
And we will dance away the hearts of men.”
Flowerdrop, I liked that concept of balance & the middle way too. It’s not too different from “Moderation in all things.” There are beautiful truths in other religions, aren’t there! And universal truths…are universal! Like, what Jesus taught about “Love others as I’ve loved you.” “The kingdom of God is within you.” These seem like Buddhist teachings, as well. I really like this thread! Wonderful comments. I also really like the concept of the “middle way” as opposed to the extremes one way or the other. I like to view the middle way not as a compromise, or fence-sitting with no commitment one way or another, but instead the wisdom to keep things in perspective and see their true meaning and value the diversity of many views instead of only one view. I like the teaching that the “Middle Way” is not a compromise between two positions, but more like an apex of a triangle where it is elevated above either extremes by seeing the value in both positions for different applications.
I have applied this to my testimony. I think there is a middle way to mormonism, not rebelling or being offended by church teachings or practices, but not being 100% obedient just for obedience sake…but the middle way is choosing those things that elevate me spiritually, and accepting some things I just don’t understand and choose not to dwell on, and allow others to choose how they wish. I also like the teaching of meditation and seeking the “stillness” of nature around me. That has been helpful for me to be still, and be at peace with myself and my thoughts.
I think some teachings of Buddhism are enlightening to me…but don’t take them to the extremes of accepting the literal interpretations, many of which Sam expressed really well.
I’m sorry I missed it! Did they talk about the Zen Buddhist concept of killing the Buddha? BTW, this reminded me of teh (off-topic) 3 values of the Dao:
compassion
balance
Humility
HiJolly
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