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I have been lurking here for a couple of months. I even registered, but then asked to have my first registration deleted, because I was so paranoid that I was sure my Bishop would read my posting, figure out it was me, and then make life harder for me, because I was part of this community. At least I have gotten over my paranoia about being discovered. But I am still struggling. Here’s my problem. I am a life long member, born in the Church, to a somewhat Church-famous family. Served a mission, Married in the Temple, was an active TBM, Peter Priesthood type. But somewhere along the line, I fell down, got involved in some sexual temptations, and when I confessed all to my Bishop, a “Court of Love” was called, and I was excommunicated from the Church.
Now I am struggling with the decision of the Stake President because I feel it was a bit harsh, and that the decision was made long before the court. In my opinion, my experience was not a “court of Love’ but rather a “court of conviction” eager to cleanse the system, but short on compassion. I am resenting being called into meet with my Bishop every couple of weeks. My BP and SP are “iron Rods” and because of that, I will not be allowed to be re-baptized for at least a year no matter what I do. Each day when I get up, I feel like I am adrift in a sea of despair. I want to believe the Church, I want to Stay LDS, but as I struggle with being a newly non-member, I am wondering if I should just give up. I am so confused about it all. My DW is supportive of me, and our relationship is OK, not perfect, she is deeply hurt, but says she loves me still so at least we are still together, but we struggle to talk to each other about deep feelings and things of the heart. When we try, she falls into her Molly Mormon mold and tells me that I just need to pray more/harder and everything will work out according to God’s plan. But I feel like I have been set adrift and cut off from God. I know in my head that the Church doesn’t control my relationship with my Savior, but in my heart I am feeling very much alone and abandoned.
WELCOME! I am glad you found our little support group. I think we have another recently excommunicated member on our board. I hope you are able to find encouragement and support here. Hi Zadok, I want to welcome you too. Life certainly isn’t simple. We are complex human beings with so many needs. This must be a very difficult time for you. You must be feeling like a cast out and like you don’t know where you fit anymore. Being understood is so important in helping someone work through their issues. It sounds like you cannot really express how you feel or what you are going through with either your wife or church leaders. A good therapist might help. I think you really need someone who you can talk to that you can be real with. What needs are not being met that made you feel tempted? What would you like to be able to say to your wife and have her understand? How do you wish your leaders would have responded to you? What would you like to change?
5 years ago, I was very unhappy in my marriage. I tried so hard to talk to my husband about it and asked him to go to counseling with me. He would not do it and was using his work and callings to avoid facing sensitive issues in our marriage. It made me very vunerable and I almost had an affair with another man. It was only when I told my husband that I wanted a divorce because he had made me feel so rejected and undesirable that he was willing to go to counseling. It is still not perfect, but we have both tried and it is better. My therapist was not able to help my husband alot but she helped me a whole lot where I am not so dependent on others for my self worth now. Learning to love myself and value myself was an important key. We can only change ourselves and decide who we want to be no matter if anyone else approves of us. Right now the only person’s approval I care about is God’s. What he thinks of me matters. I know he sees our hearts and understands our pain.
I think I would like to feel free to tell my wife how I am feeling, without her going straight to the “Satan is in control of your heart” line. She is very “digital” in her thinking. Everything is either good from God, or evil from Satan. She has trouble dealing with shades of gray. Solution for all problems to her is fasting and prayer. I want to be able to say maybe, just maybe, things aren’t so black or white. And feel that she is really listening. As far as what I thought would happen or what I think should have happened…. I believe that my BP and SP decided that I would be excommunicated, between themselves, weeks before my court. I believe the Disciplinary Council was just a formality that the SP went through so he could justify his decision. Forcing me to recount my sexual transgressions back to age 16 was awkward for the High Council and degrading to me, but supported his conclusion that I was a “career offender” and should be cast out.
My testimony of the Church is struggling. Fortunately, I am able to separate the Church from the Savior, and I am feeling close and loved by my Savior. I am just struggling with the Church right now.
You might let your wife read this talk by Dallin Oaks on Special cases that I posted on our group: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=233&p=2066&hilit=special+cases#p2066 Welcome Zadok! I think you’ll find some very supportive “friends” here that can help you in you challenging times. I’m going to say some things that might not feel good to you today…but maybe will in the future. My story is similar to yours, but add a pain pill addiction, criminal convictions, loss of medical license, bankruptcy and divorce (not to do the one-upmanship thing…
The whole process allowed me to cleanse my soul. The forced humbling was what I needed. It allowed me to start from scratch, in every way. I began a spiritual search that took me in a new direction that is sooo much better for me today. Without reservation, I can say that my life is better than it’s ever been.
The thing I eventually learned is not what to do wrt marriage, the church, etc…but how to change my attitude towards life; what to do in my heart with what others say and do. I learned that there is no person better than myself to tell me how to act and believe. I came to be okay with listening to other’s advice, but to take what works and leave the rest behind…and not feel guilty about what others think. I shifted from thinking others were more worthy than I, to an attitude that I was completely okay and worthy…AS I AM!
I forgave others that (I had felt) offended me, and came to realize they were doing the best they could with what they’d been given. Then I learned that true forgiveness was self-forgiveness…and as hard as it was, I forgave myself for what I felt I had done wrong. When you get to that place, it’s amazing how many “temptations” go away. You don’t “need” to do the many things you once felt the compulsion for. Self-love allows you to live in the moment without needing life to be any different than it is. And there is peace.
The specifics of what to do will be dealt with. You may make some “mistakes” along the way…but will learn from each of them. In my mind, whether you “StayLDS” or not, stay married or not, doesn’t matter as much as whether you find self-love. That is the ultimate spiritual awakening. With that, everything else will fall into place. Good luck on your journey!
Welcome. I feel your pain in not only feeling a) resentment b) unable to get satisfactory answers from your wife and c) cut off from the Church so to speak. I’ve felt all three in my lifetime regarding my Church life even though I’ve never been excommunicated.
I also think you’re miles ahead of myself in being able to separate the Church from the Lord. I think that’s a huge credit to your character, because I’ve had trouble doing that when I’ve been faced with perceived injustice from the Church.
I’ve also been part of a “court of love” before as one of the people who make recommendations to the SP and BP about what penalty (if any) should be given. We always had the interests of the person who was subject to discipline at heart, we always took it really seriously, and we always prayed about it before we went ahead with the decision. You may have evidence to the contrary that is leading you to this conclusion, and I respect it. However, I just wanted to share my own experience — I wanted our decision to be as lenient as we thought possible to ensure sufficient remorse and recognition of the gravity of the sin, but still encourage the person to keep trying and come back.
I think one approach to help you feel peace during this period you’re a non-member again is to look foward to the day you’re re-baptized. This WILL pass if you can keep a humble attitude about their decision, and accept it as best you can. I also think the fact your Bishop is meeting with you regularly shows concern for your situation which, if you reflect on it, might make you feel better about the meetings. Also, after meeting with your Bishop every couple weeks for a while, to show humility and compliance with what they want, you might ask him if you can stretch them out to monthly meetings, or longer. This might help you feel better.
Regarding your wife, I’m in the same boat. My wife has a totally different orientation toward life and way of thinking so it’s always a dead-end when I try to talk to her about certain things. She just can’t empathize. But I love her and think she’s really attractive and could gush about everything else about her. My solution is to find a good friend to whom you can emote/share/talk to — who CAN empathize. This forum is a good place as there are regulars who return here frequently. You may have other ideas.
Regarding the resentment. Well, I’m not a good one to talk to on that one. I tend to hold grudges and am constantly fighting them off. Perhaps some of the others on this forum could help you with that, recognizing they aren’t therapists by any means. But they may have ideas for coping they have used with their own brushes with resentment.
For me, when I hear your situation, my thought is to keep looking forward to that day you get baptized. Recognize that your leaders are looking for humility, a lack of resentment, evidence that you really feel terrible about what happened, and that you are making a huge change in your attitude about the transgression that happened. Under no circumstances should you express any disapproval with their decision, share your resentment, or stop showing up for meetings. You need to jump through all the hoops they put in front of you as ultimately, it’s their decision based on what you say and tell them.
You might also pray deeply for the Lord to give you deep humility, in spite of how you feel about the SP and BP, and your perception that they made the decision before they even listened or held the disciplinary council. If you can get yourself into a place where you feel really humble toward these brethren, that will help. Any way you can try to bring the Spirit into the meetings with your Bishop will also make a difference, I believe. Share your regrets, share the humility you ultimately create in yourself, and also, get to a point where you are able to tell the Lord “I don’t care if this takes 5 years to go away, and to get my baptismal blessings back, I’m going to stay and keep trying”.
One of life’s paradoxes is that when you stop wanting things quickly, they come faster. Strange, but true.
I’m going to say a prayer for you after I press the submit button….
You, all of you who have responded, will never know how valuable this is for me. Just being able to talk, type my feelings, read your responses is so very cathartic for me. I am in a good place with my Savior. I stopped the offending behavior 3 years ago, and have prayerfully sought forgiveness from Jesus Christ ever since. I feel his love, acceptance and forgiveness of me almost every time I pray. The atonement is perfect and I love it. The Church however is not perfect, and is made up of mortals who make mistakes. My wife and I are OK. We love each other, and she is willing to forgive and move on. (Something that a lot of women wouldn’t do). So I am grateful to her and we are repairing our relationship together. There are just some things, some feelings, some doubts, some problems about which we can not talk.
Yes, I have issues with the BP and the SP. I need to get over them. Right now I am still feeling hostility and a little anger. I look forward and long for the time when this is behind me and I can say it was the best thing for me. I am thinking positively about a “fresh start” but still I am feeling so alone and abandoned when I am struggling with my support of the Church.
Welcome Zadok, I hope you feel at home here. May you find peace, and forgiveness – from yourself and from others – and may you embrace your “best” life path, from all that are before you. Of course this is exactly what we wish for everyone. Welcome! Welcome Zadok. I am really glad to see how you are processing all this. It seems like you are headed in a really great direction. That is encouraging First question…. is another ward or stake an option for you? Yes, a new ward and stake is a definite possibility. Our last two children living at home are BOTH getting married this summer. After the kids are moved out, we were going to clean carpets, do some painting and scrubbing and then put our house on the market. With luck we will be able to move about the time that my year of excommunication runs out. One concern I have is that moving will “restart” the clock and that I’ll have to spend another year while the new BP and SP get to know me. I really don’t want to go through that if possible. Additionally, there will be a second year before I am eligible for restoration of blessings. I am not looking forward to two full years on the outside for something I did three years ago.
Quote:Yes, I have issues with the BP and the SP. I need to get over them. Right now I am still feeling hostility and a little anger. I look forward and long for the time when this is behind me and I can say it was the best thing for me. I am thinking positively about a “fresh start” but still I am feeling so alone and abandoned when I am struggling with my support of the Church.
I’m just going to throw this out there as an observation, not as a judgment about the right or wrong way to resolve your feelings.
But … selling a house, uprooting and moving? That is a pretty serious endeavor. Something about it seems extreme or like the wrong tool for the task. You are talking about resolving feelings inside you by physically moving your residence. Will that change your feelings? Or will you carry your feelings with you in the moving truck, along with your furniture and other household items?
I appreciate your concern. And I would share your feelings if we were selling the house and considering moving simply because of what has happened between me and the Church. The plan to sell our house was made years before my excommunication. The two events are not interconnected at all, and actually may complicate my return to full fellowship. On the other hand, a “fresh start” might be a good thing for all concerned. OK. Gotcha. That sounds much more “normal.” (like I am a good judge at that … not! hehe)
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