The church is true so why bother to ask

… My point being that in Mormondom it is only acceptable to get one answer. Anything else is not an answer at all.

So I ask whats the point of asking if there is only one answer anyway. Maybe we should just say pray until you get the acceptable answer. The average TBM can not conceive that God would tell them the church is not true for some reason.

I love it. You Vulcans are so cynical.

To some is given to know . . .

To some is given to believe . . .

To some is given to struggle along without either of the above . . .

The key, imo, is to shed the expectations of HOW to ask and HOW to feel and HOW to “believe”. The teachings are there, they just get overlooked in the focus on the stereotypes (like the burning in the bosom).

Cadence,

I have certainly seen this attitude with our new bishop lately. Over the years I have seen my husband fast, pray, and study to get a recognizable witness of the BofM as Moroni promised. He never felt he got one so he left the church two years ago. For along time he relied on Paul Dunn’s testimony because he respected him so much. Of course, when it came out that Brother Dunn had fabricated some of his spiritual experiences, everything changed for my husband. He said, “If Paul Dunn can do this, how do I know JS did not fabricate his stories. I can no longer go by any one elses testimony. I need my own spiritual witness.” Now, I have asked God a number of times as to why he has not given my husband a spiritual witness (he had an intellectual testimony because he liked alot of the teachings). The only answer I got was that he has witheld it for a purpose. I know God led us to the 7th day Adventist church for a few years and that is where I came to understand Christ in ways I had never before.

When I was at BYU one semester, a guy bore his testimony in our ward who had been a minister in another church for many years. He said when he first prayed about the church he got the answer of “no’, not to join. 5 years later he gets an answer of ‘yes.’ So, it seems like withholding an answer for a reason and ‘no, not now’ are some other answers. What is difficult for me is that I always felt the church was true for so long and now I am not sure anymore. I became so confused after reading church history and seeing falliability of church leaders. Right now, all I know is that I want to be Christlike and do good things.

Right now, all I know is that I want to be Christlike and do good things.

Maybe that’s all that is necessary?

😮

Yes that is all that is necessary if that is what you want.

The Church being “true” is the leading algorithm (for lack of a better word) in the religion.

We proselytize both externally and internally using this formula: IF the Church is true THEN it establishes an obligation to that truth. Or in other words, the Church is true; therefore, you have an obligation to be involved. Otherwise, you are failing to do what you know is right.

On the plus side, this makes for a very simple and easy to understand religious conversion. The Church is true, that really isn’t a very clear statement, but it implies that everything else that follows is also true by association. You don’t really have to pick apart and struggle with each detail. People might think I am being cynical, but I am not. There is a clear advantage and ease of operating within that formula.

On the minus side …

Quite frankly, I find it to be a rather lazy proposition. The fact that the Church is true in some eternal and cosmic sense allows it to get away with sometimes not being effective or even very good. Example: It doesn’t matter that your local youth program sucks right now, the Church is true. You are obligated to participate. See what I mean? They aren’t going to let “market forces” determine the programs that work or need improvement. It is also a little harder to tailor the Church to local needs, since the “truth” proposition has an absolute and universal “flavor” to it.

The other huge problem is what happens when one brick in that wall of truth crumbles? It’s very all-or-nothing. The person did not pray about different ideas in the Church. They sought an all-encompassing package answer. If one thing might not be true, what about everything else? You asked for a package answer, you got a package solution. 😯 There might be 9 good and spiritually valuable things for a person participating in the LDS religion, but if the 10th isn’t true (we find out something that really bothers us), then we are likely to throw it all away in search of the correct package deal. What if one size doesn’t in fact fit all?

Yeah, these are my favorite types of questions to ask. The truth is it is a designed process and designed answer. To the faithful, normal, regular TBM there is no other acceptable answer.

The thing is, this is exactly the point. You are supposed to pray until you get the right answer. Same goes for following the words of the prophet. Sure our prophet is fallible. How can you know when he is speaking as a man or a prophet? Simple, you pray for a confirmation of his words. Ah, but the trick is, there’s only one right answer.

Obviously I’m being cynical and I know not everyone believes this. In fact, as I spend time outside of Utah, it’s really the heart of Happy Valley that suffers from this disfunction mostly. Outside of Utah people are much more introspective and willing to see nuance.

The other huge problem is what happens when one brick in that wall of truth crumbles? It’s very all-or-nothing. The person did not pray about different ideas in the Church. They sought an all-encompassing package answer. If one thing might not be true, what about everything else? You asked for a package answer, you got a package solution. 😯 There might be 9 good and spiritually valuable things for a person participating in the LDS religion, but if the 10th isn’t true (we find out something that really bothers us), then we are likely to throw it all away in search of the correct package deal. What if one size doesn’t in fact fit all?

Very accurate observation. The problem is the church leaders do not preach this. They are very much in the camp of an all or nothing approach. It is left up to individuals to wade through all the stuff and find what works. Then deal with the initial guilt that they are not 100% onboard.

Yeah, you’re right Cadence. The way I look at this is to ask what I would expect them to do. Would it be reasonable to expect them to preach that sometimes, on some issues they got it wrong and will get it wrong in the future? What is the recipe for identifying the false claim? Is it a false claim for everyone, or just some people?

I recognize, and sympathize with this sentiment, but when I look at the situation, I’m not sure what else I would expect!