My3GirlsDad

I don’t know any TBM’s that are killing or marrying additional wives–sounds fishy to me.

Brian, the Krakauer argument came to my mind as well…which is weak but does seem to influence some people.

If this user was challenged in a PM to agree to remove the generalizations and explained why, I would bet he’d agree to remove or rephrase, don’t you think?

I like the idea of trying to not let the site run away with TBM-bashing tones. It isn’t productive nor credible to those lurking or who may have families that might check out the site, IMO.

I think Ray is getting a reputation for challenging these statements too much, though – can someone else address?

I received a PM from M3GD a few weeks back asking about my daughters…and I agree with HG we can spread this around.

I will plan to send a PM to M3GD to explain how we should keep the tone of posts in line with the mission of the site (similar to Brian’s message to richrich).

The final question is…do I ask him to edit the message, change it for him, or just leave it as is and send the PM only?

It seems to me the discussion has moved on, and others besides Ray have made the point that his generalizations aren’t how most of us feel. I suggest we leave it as is, and just coach M3GD with a PM instead of editing the comment.

If you’d like it handled a different way… let me know.

PM Sent to M3GD:

M3GD,

I wanted to send a note to give you some feedback based on some of the exchanges I’ve seen on the board recently. The overall ideas you have expressed are fine, but how things were said have sometimes come across too negative and not constructive in helping this site achieve its mission. Your posts express all valid points. If you can frame the same sentiment perhaps in a slightly different way, it will work just fine. The main things are this:

1. It’s fine to bring up controversial ideas or viewpoints, but they need to include ways of (or attempts at, or question about) reconciling those feelings or dealing with them in a constructive manner. That keeps the discussion within the framework of the site mission.

2. It’s important to be a little more fuzzy and less absolute about labels or accusations against others. For example, you were pretty strong about saying all TBM-like members “will serve, give money, give time and perform rituals for salvation of self and others even it seems a little strange at first. They will also kill, marry additional wives in secret, take secret oaths, etc. That should not surprise any of us because of the LDS History that we know all to well. Mountain meadows and other historical events would definitely happen again if the right circumstances were present.” We want all kinds of mormons, ex-mormons, or other religious folk to all feel welcome to come on the site, read the points, and engage in a thoughtful and supportive forum. We are not here to make accusations at any groups, or start territorial arguments with any. I might suggest rephrasing this to something less accusatory like, “My experience has been most members that have a testimony in the prophet will blindly obey without questioning the authorities, which can be very dangerous as we’ve seen in historical examples like Mountain Meadows Massacre or polygamy. I just can’t live my life that way and listen to the prophets but seek my own entitled personal revelation.” In doing something like that, you are referencing your opinion without the absolutes and extremes that “all TBMs” will do “anything” including “killing, etc”. I’m not trying to tell you how to think or what opinions you need to have…just an example of how you can phrase it differently so it becomes not just venting frustrations, but how you work through it or how you want to help others see how they can StayLDS despite these difficulties…but not just attack a group. We don’t want our site to turn into a negative, bashing zone.

3. For organization purposes, try to keep the comments on topic with the thread, or feel free to start new threads with your new ideas. Because people check the messages at different times based on an asyncronous posting system, it becomes important to keep the comments relative to the topic the original post (OP) intended, as a courtesy to the others on the thread (we call this thread-jacking).

Finally, I wanted to make sure I recognized the fact you have expressed many positive and inspiring thoughts, which I wanted to thank you for and encourage these points really hit home on the mission of the website:

StayLDS so you don’t want to upset the apple cart. Stay because you love the people in your ward. Stay because its the community that you are used to. But get Christ first and be willing to let go of all else if it is ever required- because He is the Way. IMO.

I like the fact you recognize there are ways to cope with our issues with an imperfect Church, and these become very emotional and personal topics. Let’s just makes sure we don’t turn it into anger without boundaries.

Thanks for your understanding. I assure you that nobody has it out for you or wants you to leave the discussions. Nobody wants that, but we do actively moderate the content of our forums and actively work to shape the discussions in the direction of our site goals.

If you’re unclear about any of this or where I’m coming from, please don’t hesitate to respond and let me know what questions you have.

Carry on, brother.

-Heber13

Just to let you know, he was receptive to receiving feedback, and responded to me in a PM as follows:

Thanks for the feedback. I will be more careful in my word choice in the future.

Heber, would you mind copying and pasting the following question, without elaboration, to him in a PM and sharing his response with us?

What are your motivation and goal in participating here?

His confidence in his framework is fascinating. I would want to think he is a stage 3 to stage 3 lateral mover, but he seems all too comfortable discussing his beliefs as a system, and seeing them clearly as such. He is attached to them in a conscious way.

I have a sense of some genuineness about his comfort level with other people on other paths. Those distinctly are not stage 3 or even stage 4 vantage points.

He does come across quite a bit like an evangelical recruiter. Not a troll though.

I think it very likely he acquired a successful and functional form of reconciliation, but it isn’t really a strategy of staying in the Church. I love his sense of peace about it. His viewpoint is an uncomfortable one for our site, but a small part of me likes that discomfort and the challenge of it. In the end, I don’t think he has a “StayLDS” reconciliation. It seems functional and valid on his individual level, but it isn’t about staying LDS or using Mormonism for new purposes. That will probably require us to cut him as a content producer, I hate to say.