Achievement Motivation and its place in the church

I guess I am not really the kind of person you are looking for to answer the question, but I thought I would share some views. I don’t fit that model you built exactly because I don’t agree with doing things in the Church just because someone invented the task to do. To me, if it doesn’t produce results, then I am not doing it right or it is not a value-producing activity.

If I am not doing it right, that means I need to be creative and actually connect with the problem on a personal level to find a real solution instead of the boilerplate method the Church handed to me. The boilerplate may have worked for someone else, but it doesn’t always work for everyone else. Classic examples are drawn from Church programs designed in areas with high-density LDS populations, and high-activity wards. Those seem to be really difficult to do the same in the “mission field” sometimes. A good service sometimes needs to be tweaked in creative ways to produce real value, instead of marching along “by the manual.” I know we all don’t always feel complete freedom to do that. We can though.

I don’t want to get on to a whole rant, but sometimes I think there are things the Church wants to do, but they should really focus and concentrate energy elsewhere. I see this in small wards I have been in that simply did not have the human and spiritual resources to do ALL the programs, but felt compelled for the sake of our spirit of homogeneity in the Church to try and do everything. Less done great is better than more done all poorly IMO.

Fwiw, I see that quote as focused solely and exclusively on understanding that is hidden, not programs. I read it as spending our energy seeking to receive revelation / enlightenment / knowledge about things that aren’t known, not doing things that have no results.

Is the more clear question then about the difference between patience and futility?

The most extreme case I can think of regarding patience in Mormonism is the notion of becoming perfect, even becoming God. On a rational level, this may seem futile considering the contradiction of such a task with the potential of a human lifetime. But I see this like a Mr. Miyagi task from the 1980’s movie “Karate Kid.” Mr. Miyagi orders Daniel to paint the fence in a certain way, and sand the deck in a certain way. Both of those tasks are nearly meaningless in and of themselves. Patience leads to the discovery of strength and a form of enlightenment. The problem with that metaphor is that I find fewer and fewer Mr. Miyagis in the mundane performance of Church programs as they are.

Some things truly are futile efforts. But the act of attempting them over the course of our life, finding some futile and some not indeed imparts wisdom.

As to section 123, that is often interpreted as talking about missionary work or activation work in regards to the social organization of the LDS Church — of making converts. That is what makes ideas into “scriptures” though, the ability for their poetry of thought to present itself for ever evolving meaning-making. Do those passages talk about Church programs? Sure, one can make that meaning. I also see something deep on a level of human development. That is what reflects back to me from the mirror of such “scripture.” I see an idea of searching and of sharing in those passages. Nothing in the actual text says that these same people who are lost and kept from the “truth” in various sects and denominations are not in fact members of the Mormon sect and denomination. I am kept from hidden things, waiting for great light to be manifest. I find it beautiful to be in communion with other seekers, this community does that, where we bringing ourselves out of darkness. Our mind as a very small helm, can steer our soul, our expansive self extending way beyond the confines of our physical body through all our spiritual connections to others, through the rough waters and towards our destiny.

That seems to me to be focusing too heavily on that one section rather than looking at the scripture in its context.

Maybe. Maybe not. It’s just another way to look at it – so I said, “I see it as . . .” You said, “To me . . .” We simply see it differently – but, fwiw, I try hard never to take anything out of context.

Other than that, what Brian said.

That’s OK. We can see it differently — and I appreciated having the benefit of considering your perspective and that you thought it a question/scripture worthwhile intepreting even.

For me I have made a conscious effort to de-complicate my life. Work, family, church is to much for me. Something had to give. It was the church because it brought me the most turmoil and anxiety

I second the motion. I’m into new areas of my life now where there’s a more immediate connection between effort and results. And my church service is in a lightweight calling right now: not leadership.

However, they did call someone to a key position today, and for a moment, I felt a bit of regret I wasn’t asked to do it. But then it left me when I reflected on everything I’d have to do, the stress, the turmoil, the anxiety….

However, I’d like to get back into the leadership thing at some point if they ask me to in the distant future, but only after coming to grips with the apparent time-wasting many Church callings seem to have. And its conflict with my own need for achievement….I was fully expecting people to say it’s not about the acehievement in the church, it’s about the striving, which for me, is chewing without ever swallowing.

But this hasn’t helped much as it seems like a panacea, or rationalization of the fact that your investment didn’t seem to bear fruit.

IMO, sometimes the investment IS the fruit. Take a missionary, for example. You send a boy of 19 out for two years to serve. You could “measure” success a lot of ways:

– number of baptisms

– number of contacts

– retention rates

– highest “position of authority” the boy achieved (e.g. DL, ZL, AP)

– pass/fail – did he “return with honor”?

But none of these is very valuable, IMO. What’s measurable is not always what matters. These are clearly things that are more “on point,” but only measured by the boy himself:

– how many people whose lives he touched

– how many people he loved through service

– how much he matured; what kind of man he became as a result of his mission; what kind of husband, father, employee/employer he will be

How (the journey) is often more important than what (outcome). This is a lot like the “hero’s myth,” the call to adventure. In fairy tales, those who vie for position or who focus too much on finding the treasure because they ignore the journey, are the ones who don’t succeed. They don’t speak to the dwarf in the path, they don’t listen to the talking goose or the old beggar woman because they are too single-minded in their quest to see that the journey is the outcome.

It’s better to leave a note each month, or even just mail a letter, and focus your efforts on other more hopeful situations where people are more likely to respond.

Sometimes. Sometimes not. I think I agree with Hawkgrrrl because it is in trying to figure out what to do that there is learning. It is an experience…whether or not the home teaching is successful.