Utah Women have lowest higher education rates in the Nation

I don’t think you can “paint all Utah woment with the same brush”. Most probably stay home, not because they hate working, but to follow the admonition of prophets about the blessings of childrearing and of a mother at home.

Naturally, their belief that they should stay home and make babies is probably at the root of it — that motherhood is a partnership with God.

It does seem disturbing to me as well, and something I want to share with my teenage girls. My girls have sometimes expressed they get confused between being told to seek education and careers for making money equally in the work force with men, and the directive to not overlook their role as mothers. I try to explain those are not two difference choices.

I will say that the article referred is all relative to national averages, and suggests that up until the year 2000, Utah women were ahead of the national average and leading the way. It has only been the last decade when their percentage rates have stagnated and the national averages have accelerated and passed Utah.

So I guess we could conclude that for many decades, Utah women were more educated in comparison.

I also think times are changing, and the church has placed more emphasis on YW programs to develop these messages, in my experience. We realize divorce rates are what they are, personal circumstances vary, and my girls are being taught they need to be pursuing their education to be contributors to household income, and parenthood gets worked into that plan, not derails it.

I read this article and noticed that the authors do not report that these education differences are statistically significant. They might be, but I’m guessing not, or they would have reported them to be. They do report statistically significant differences in attendance by ethnicity, but fail to indicate where exactly the significance falls. Is it just with African-Americans? With all races? Hard to tell. Were Utah women significantly higher educated back in ’87, or could the numbers above average and below average all be attributable to chance alone? We’re not told. I also wondered what the graph would look like if Utah’s line was compared to other individual states, not just the average of all the states (including Utah). It might not look so anomolous.

Given the caveat that the differences in education rates between Utah women and women in the rest of the nation may not not statistically significant, what might be the reason that they went from above average to below average? The article gives some hints. It may correlate with the increase in minority population (like it or not, minority post-secondary education is historically poor compared to majority). Similarly, Utah has seen one of the highest population growths. With that often comes economic boom (people don’t move to places where jobs are scarce). People moving in create more jobs, including more jobs that require little to no post-secondary education. If jobs are plentiful, people often feel less motivated to educate themselves further. Based on what I gleened from the article, I would posit that the decreasing education rates may relate to ethnicity and economics. Obviously, LDS religion relates to women leaving college early, men being scarce in the 19-21 age range, and women taking more education-type careers. But, the LDS religion has always been a huge part of Utah, why would this be a more significant factor now that the proportion of LDS in Utah is lower than before? Doesn’t make sense to me.

From my perspective, the church encourages women to get educated more so today than in the 80’s. I don’t think these low rates are church related.

But, you Utahns can spend lots of money on task forces and committees to figure it all out.

While you’re at it, try to figure out how a state full of Mormons, who purportedly value education so much, spend the lowest amount on education in the entire nation. Utah’s per pupil spending is traditionally dismal. You make my state look good, and my state is terrible in this area as well. Okay… sorry to rant.

But, you Utahns can spend lots of money on task forces and committees to figure it all out.

While you’re at it, try to figure out how a state full of Mormons, who purportedly value education so much, spend the lowest amount on education in the entire nation. Utah’s per pupil spending is traditionally dismal. You make my state look good, and my state is terrible in this area as well. Okay… sorry to rant.

Curious Cnsl1 – what state are you from? Only asking because I am in the public education field and was interested by your remarks.

I am in education and have been involved in this “discussion”, and here is what I know about the Utah education system. Utah, as of last year, spends more percentage of their state budget on education than any other state in the Union,. The reason education looks so bad in Utah, is because they have SO many kids to educate – and the problem is our tax system is set up that the more kids a family has, the less amount of taxes that family has to pay. So these big mormon families (VERY COMMON) are paying very little into the educational tax system, yet they are getting a ton of benefit from the State in educational dollars. Where are the taxes going to come from? Education will eventually bankrupt the state if they don’t figure out a difference source for revenue – OR, the CULTURE changes and family start to become smaller and smaller. (I think it is already going this direction?)

Back to the topic – I’m very grateful that when my wife wanted to go on a mission, her father (mormon bishop at the time) told her that he would not support her on a mission UNTIL after she graduated from college with a BS degree. By the time that happened I had snagged her up, and she worked full time so I COULD GO TO SCHOOL. She was a “stay at home mom” for 12 years while our kids were young, but now that they are all in school, she’s back to work and I sure do appreciate the help paying the bills. I don’t think, if this is true about Utah women, that it’s the churches fault. We’ve come a long way since the “bare foot and pregnant” and “birth control is a sin” mentality that was so prevalent in our culture in the 60s and 70s. Thank you god!

I also have been involved in education most of my adult life (not in Utah), and I was going to say much what cwald said about educational expenditures as a percent of total spending. Utah has been #1 for a LONG time in that regard. It also has been near the top of the country in percent of students graduating from high school AND attending AND graduating from college for a long time. It also leads the country in percent of college graduates (men and women) who are fluent in a foreign language – not surprisingly.

My own reaction is that, if this study is accurate, there are three reasons – two of which have been mentioned already:

1) Statistically significant differences don’t exist;

2) The recent decrease in Utah (“falling back to the pack”) probably is due to the significant increase in immigrants (and my belief that immigrants probably weren’t included in past studies), while the other states’ rates probably have risen over the past decade.

3) The average marriage age in Utah for women, according to the last study I saw, is 21.5 years old – while the average age for women in the rest of the country is 23 years old. (I’m sure that’s not as big difference as many here probably thought, but it’s significant, since the average college graduation age is closer to 23 than to 21.5.) It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Utah is nowhere near the bottom in the nation in percent of women who start college, but graduating is a different stat.

College tuition is much higher and student loans have increased, making it vital that fresh graduates enter the workforce and start earning enough to pay back loans and establish credit. This is hard for young mothers. Additionally, the Church places the emphasis on marriage, child-bearing and nurturing ahead of education and establishing a career path.

One of the most frightening consequence of this is that 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce. This can be especially devastating for young mothers who have to face a competitive job market, find affordable quality daycare, buy a car to get kids to daycare and to get to work – all without a credit score (we are counseled not to use credit) or an education. I found myself in just such a situation. The father of my three young children was declared mentally ill and sent to a Provo Hospital. I had nothing, except three hungry children.

I went back to school, got a job, bought a car and then a house. I learned how vital financial preparedness and economic solvency was for women. I shouldn’t have had to raise three children in poverty. They shouldn’t have had to do without dental care, medical insurance, school clothes, good winter boots, coats etc.

I should have been able to provide for them. If I had to do it all over again, I’d get a solid education before having children. Sure, it would delay child-bearing by 2-4 years (at the most), but is a decade of poverty worth it?

Young men are told to get married ASAP after returning from a mission.

This wasn’t my experience. Missionaries in my mission were only given this advice if they were unlikely to have a lot of prospects (socially awkward, no girlfriend, etc.). Run of the mill missionaries were told to play the field (yes, that was the phrase used) and to make the decision whom to marry carefully and prayerfully. And I think that was pretty good advice. The same pattern held true for the sisters who were released; we all compared notes.

This study contradicts a very recent article in Huffington post. Utah wasn’t in the bottom 10 states for higher education for women according to that article. My own opinion is that it is a huge problem for any woman to not ensure they are able to be financially independent through whatever means are at their disposal should the occasion arise. And I don’t care what ostensible reason seems good enough (pregnancy or whatever) – to me that’s just not taking responsibility for your own future. It’s just not right to assume all is going to be well forever. Your husband could become disabled, could get fired, could have a sucky career, the economy could change, could die young, could be unreliable / have an affair / gambling or drug addiction / alcoholism. Relying 100% on your spouse to be the only one capable of providing financially is just not wise unless you have other means of sustaining yourself (like a trust fund or inheritance).

Frankly, I think some women absolve themselves of responsibility, and that causes them to make poor choices in this realm like quitting school or not developing marketable skills. Very few people can support a family on scented candle sales. Providential living includes being realistic and a big dose of personal accountability. That is what I will be telling my daughter and daughters in law.