Hold on approving ROUS

I had the exact same thought when I got the notification e-mail.

ROUS’ first post is a classic anti-Mormon approach to scripture – quoting a Biblical verse that is used to claim Mormon doctrine is not consistent with the Bible.

My gut reaction is that there is no language barrier – but that we are dealing with an anti-Mormon. I might be wrong, but it might be a good idea for someone to answer the question privately and see how s/he responds. In general, I’d like an introduction post before posts like this one are approved.

I did not approve the post, and I left it for all of you to read.

“You will go to hell if you die a Mormon. Your religion is false. Goodbye.”

That was all he could muster in response to my calm and thoughtful answer to his post. I think we have our answer — Account DELETED.

LOL. I don’t think he knew what to say when I didn’t react as expected … I doubt there is a response in his “bashing” script for my way of thinking.

****************************************************************

****************************************************************

Hi R.O.U.S.,

Just so you know, all posts by new users are held in moderation (invisible to all but site admins and moderators) until we get a chance to understand where new people are coming from. Our site is highly moderated, in a sense, edited like a newspaper or magazine.

I am not sure you will get the style of answer you are looking for at StayLDS. Our forum members are people that are generally not orthodox LDS (mormon), and many don’t believe it literally. So you have to keep in mind you are not going to see a discussion that represents official positions of the Church leadership.

Let me address your question via email first to see if I can give you a flavor of the style of answer you might expect. This will also help me see if you fit our model of content creation in the forums. That will help us decide to approve you for posting topics and responding to others.

Your Question:

***************************************************

Isaiah 43:10 says___”Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.”

What does that mean?…..Mormons believe they will become gods and that there are others god, but God Himself said there was no god formed before Him and none will be formed after Him.

What does that verse mean though?

***************************************************

My answer:

Jospeh Smith, and other early Church leaders, engaged in a lot of theological speculation. Yes. There is the idea in Mormonism that we can eventually become like Jesus Christ, and thus also like God the Father. One logical assumption is then that we become “gods.” What that means isn’t exactly clear in our own canonized scriptures. It speaks mythologically though to a deep urge in humanity to progress, grow, expand and encounter the new. There are a lot of interesting implications to this idea, including the notion that all of humanity must be “saved” together, or none of us are saved. That is another thing our temple theology addresses related to our notion of exaltation (becoming gods). We’re all in this together. It addresses a solution to something profoundly unsatisfying in mainstream Christianity — the idea that God makes billions of people doomed to fail and burn in hell forever because they had no opportunity to even know who Jesus Christ was. That smacks of injustice, and makes it difficult to see God as all-loving. It really ties into the debates over theodicy (why is there evil or suffering in the world).

What does modern protestant Christianity think we do in heaven? They don’t really have an answer. Joseph Smith wanted an answer, so he came up with one. It resonates with a lot of people. Some people find it disturbing (perhaps this is you?).

Now specifically to answer your question about the meaning of Isaiah 43:10. First off, I have to disagree with you that God said this. Isaiah wrote it. Actually, we can’t even be sure a prophet named Isaiah wrote it either. Many scholars believe two or three authors wrote it, and none of them were Isaiah. Let’s not digress though.

Let’s look at the story as we find it and deal with the passage in the context of it was assumed to have been written — 8th century Israel, northern and southern kingdoms. The Old Testament does not address much if any theology, certainly not anything about the afterlife. Isaiah, as all the other OT prophets, were highly concerned with their tribes worshipping Yaweh exclusively. They worked in a region with a vast plurality of local deities, all of which rewarded or punished their followers with military success and fertility. The call from the OT prophets was always to worship THEIR local God — Yaweh.

From a Mormon perspective, we have no problem with the passage. We do not worship any other God but God the Father (whatever other name you want to use). There will be no God we depend on before or after. There is no before or after. He is the one. Israel will have no other God. Fine with us. And just so it is clear, Mormons see themselves as part of the House of Israel, quite literally. We even have a “rite of passage” called a Partiarchal Blessing, given by a special local priest in the Church called a “patriarch,” that reveals what tribe we belong to.

But the real question perhaps is what does all this becoming gods business mean? I think it is a metaphor for something transcendent. Mormons don’t really know what it means, not the fine details, just that we will become exalted some day if we work long enough at it (mostly in the afterlife by the way), and that we become one with God (like him). This is not the same thing as traditional Christian salvation — being “saved.” That is a gift of grace from Christ to those that repent and believe in His name (Mormons agree with this).

So what do you think?

-Brian

Sorry you are going to hell, BTW. Good luck with that.

I don’t need any luck among such good society as this LDS people. We’ll turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it.

Just for kicks, I continued to poke at him via email. We went back and forth several times. He has yet to type more than a single sentence of a dozen words in response. I did get him to acknowledge that I worship the right Jesus (not a false Jesus, you know the typical “anti” line). So he agrees that I am “saved” and not actually going to burn in hell. PHEW! *wipes brow*

Now we are working on my worship of the wrong God — one that had sex with Mary to make the baby Jesus, and that was once a mortal man.

It seems like I have worn him out though. He hasn’t responded since yesterday evening.