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  • #205197
    Anonymous
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    I apologize for my inactivity as of late. I’ve been wrapped up in the demands of MM, research, and I was also invited to be a permablogger at theeternaluniverse. In any case, I’ve been missing my StayLDS family and I wanted to give an update and ask for advice about a new calling.

    UPDATE: things with family etc. are going okay. I have noticed something though. It seems I am unable to maintain any level of transcendence beyond the dichotomic Mormon culture. I feel like I have been at a place of peace in the past. But as I interact with the ward on a weekly basis I find myself getting sucked back into the culture that led to my disaffection. That is to say, I find myself becoming more frequently irritated at church, and negative and cynical towards the lessons, etc. I sort of keep falling back into a stage 4 mentality wherein I feel I either need to leave the church or accept it in full as I once did. I’m not following all the advice that I have given on this site. And I’m not sure how to stop it. Perhaps this is a symptom of not finding something to replace the spiritual void left by my former spiritual worldview. Anyway, what tips do any of you have for maintaining a level of transcendence and avoiding falling back to stage 4? This has been a real struggle for me since we moved to Michigan.

    New Calling: so apparently the Bishop doesn’t see things the same as the SP. They’ve asked me to be a counsellor in the YM presidency. Here are my thoughts in no particular order:

    1. I love working with teenagers. I think the best service in the church is done at that level.

    2. I love teaching, and I love to serve. Oh, and I also love fun outings like camping and whatnot (a major bonus IMHO to working with youth).

    3. I am greatly concerned at teaching embellished views of the “truth.” I know I can tone the lessons how I want, but I’m afraid of not living up to the expectations that parents might have of a YM instructor for their son. I won’t teach something I don’t think is true, but that also doesn’t mean I have to advertise unsavory aspects of our culture. As an instructor I would encourage thinking and growth rather than obedience and awards/programs.

    4. The bishop knows I know and research Mormonism at a greater depth than most members. He also knows I’m an “intellectual” (his word, not mine, I think because I’m pursuing a PhD). We have talked about “inoculation” in the past. OTOH, the bishop doesn’t know to what extent I don’t believe as I have not told him. The bishop knows me fairly well (we car pool on occasion), but again, as far as personal belief, he doesn’t know where I stand. I myself don’t really know to what extent I don’t believe, but I’m pretty sure it’s much less than a regular TBM.

    Basically, I really see this as a great opportunity to do something I think is very important, and influence a rising generation in Mormonism. OTOH, I don’t want to call attention to myself, or teach that which I don’t believe in. This is almost my ideal calling (did scouts before and it was perfect) but I really am concerned about teaching the lessons. Teaching in the church is something I swore I wouldn’t do again until the church had a revolution of sorts in which we decided to more honestly portray our “truths.” Comments/suggestions/advice?

    #233238
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    what tips do any of you have for maintaining a level of transcendence and avoiding falling back to stage 4?

    Find a specific plan for spiritual development. Mine has been my New Year’s Resolution structure. Search for one that works for you until you find it.

    About the calling:

    PLEASE, accept it and teach according to your own conscience – not making issues of things, but adding your own insight about nuance and personal meaning. Maybe you can quote from Elder Wirthlin’s “Concern for the One” in your first lesson and tell them that you are not going to belittle or demean any of them if they happen to believe a little differently than most others. Then, in your lessons, ask them what they believe currently, validate the points that can be validated and help them see other possibilities – all the while teaching from the lesson manual. It can be done, and it’s really not that hard.

    #233239
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Congrats, I think you have one of the greatest callings in the church,IMO.

    I wouldn’t worry about teaching the kids the wrong things too much. I still teach the youth and have found still basic gospel principles are needed to be understood by them, so no need to venture off the basics which most of us agree with (love, service, integrity, etc).

    I have found a couple of opportunities to correct false Mormon traditions, but I am careful to not force those, just make sure my heart is in the right place to help the youth, and sometimes it is better for me to support whatever their parents teach rather than try to correct them, instead…I care they grow up k

    Learning how to find answers, not spoon feed them to them.

    You’d be good at that. You’ll do great.

    My experience so far is that I love the youth to death, so my level of doubts and stuff is less important than how I love the kids. Yes, that is why I think it is one of the best callings. You can practice so much love, and those youth need that so much, instead of adults telling what they should fear or what they need to do better. They need an adult to love them, even if they are not perfect. So you focus on that and you are not attending elders quorum, it won’t matter so much what other beliefs you have too much.

    #233240
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for the encouraging words Ray, and Heber. If I might clarify my concern a bit because I think I’m not saying what I really mean.

    I do believe, as both of you have indicated, that I could find things in the lessons I agree with and would feel good teaching. My concern is living up to an expectation that I believe parents have when they send their kids to church – namely to hear the correlated lesson. I don’t mean that flippantly either. Earlier today I talked to my dad about it. He hasn’t really been terribly supportive of me in my faith crisis, but I know he loves me no matter what I believe and he does respect my opinions. However, he’s pretty “by the book” and very traditional Mormon, conservative, etc. He mentioned this concern that if he were a parent he would have trouble sending his child to learn someone’s interpretation/opinion of the church lesson. I tried to argue there was no other way one could teach, and that everything in the church was someone’s interpretation. But the bottom line is, it doesn’t matter. To him, the kids need to hear the correlated lesson as described in the manual, nothing more, nothing less.

    The reason, I think, this is instructive is that I believe he is not unique in thinking that. So my real concern is the potential expectation violation that will likely occur if I do not teach directly as indicated in the lesson manual. Is this a reasonable concern?

    Again, I do think it’s a great opportunity to serve, and I would really love it. But when teaching other people’s kids I think it’s a great responsibility to do the “right” thing. Clearly, in our culture, the “right” thing is to teach the correlated material.

    #233241
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Eu,

    I think this is a great opportunity for you. You mentioned getting irritated with the lessons; as a teacher, you can take the lesson in a way that I expect will help your spiritual growth, and I don’t think you will get irritated with yourself! :P

    I think you live in Michigan. It sounds like you have a very supportive bishop, and I suspect that there simply aren’t that many members in the ward. I suspect there is much more toleration for a bit of unorthodoxy than there is in wards in Utah County. I know that I’ve heard some crazy things in some wards. My sister lives in Murray. A man got up in Testimony meeting on Sunday and said, “I probably shouldn’t say this, but …..” I know the bishop and the whole ward were really worried. (As background, the man smokes quite a bit, and isn’t very active.) Anyway, he went on to discuss the murder of his only daughter. It certainly made everyone uncomfortable, but there wasn’t anything really wrong with anything he said. Another woman got up and gave a bit of a strange testimony. I soon realized that the ward was filled with some very unorthodox, but generally harmless people. I know this particular ward struggles to fill callings, and they probably have to let a lot of things slide when it comes to orthodoxy. I can’t say I would like to be in a ward like that–I would say there are some tremendous spiritual and physical needs to fill, and I decided that my ultra-conservative ward probably wasn’t so bad.

    Anyway, I would say teach what you feel comfortable, and don’t try to rock the boat too much. I suspect that you may have a bit of leeway in this ward, and I think if you focus on principles like faith, prayer, etc, and downplay sticky church history issues, you’ll do just fine and the parents will appreciate you. No matter what the lesson is, I think you can always turn it into something the kids would find useful. (I’d stay away from Stochastic Processes though!) 😆

    I’m currently Webelos leader. As a kid, I hated scouts, but I have tried to do my best in the calling. This month we will have 3 kids earn their Arrow of Light, and 2 of the kids will earn all 20 activity badges (I refuse to take credit for that.) Anyway, that is 6 kids with the Arrow of Light in the 8 or so months we’ve been leaders. We’ve received lots of compliments from parents, and the bishop knows I’m not fond of the calling, but I am doing the best I can. The kids seem to enjoy scouts, so at least they’re having fun…. (I think the reason I hated scouts was because the leaders were lazy and didn’t help us advance. We’ve been focused big time on advancement, and the kids love to get awards at the Pack Meetings, so I think that is why they enjoy it more than I did.)

    Anyway, that’s my 2 cents.

    #233242
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Euhemerus wrote:

    But the bottom line is, it doesn’t matter. To him, the kids need to hear the correlated lesson as described in the manual, nothing more, nothing less.

    The reason, I think, this is instructive is that I believe he is not unique in thinking that. So my real concern is the potential expectation violation that will likely occur if I do not teach directly as indicated in the lesson manual. Is this a reasonable concern?

    No. It is not a reasonable or realistic concern for the parents to have about you. You live in Michigan. I lived there for my first 12 years as a kid. It isn’t Utah County :-). If the parents want to make sure their children are never exposed to any diversity of ideas or opinions, then I suggest they home school, never let their children leave the house … ever, and cut off all electronic access to the outside world.

    Your assumption of what teachers are like in the Church does not seem to match reality to me. In fact, I personally observe that teenagers in particular GRAVITATE toward and listen to teachers/leaders that show a level of realism and connection to the messy circumstances they have to deal with day in and day out as a young adult. Teens have very sensitive internal BS-Detectors. That’s what they are SUPPOSED to be doing as teens and young adults. That is the healthy time to pass into Fowler Stage 4, forming their independent relationship with their world, and breaking away from the world given them by their parents. I can’t think of a better type of person than you, EU — if you can see the good in the teachings of the Church and transmit those general concepts in lessons and your interaction with the youth. You could help them have an uplifting and positive Stage 4 experience (or at least be a small part of that), as they go through this period in their life where they sort out who they are and what is important in their lives as new adults.

    A lot of kids roll their eyes at the teachers that are just parroting the lesson manual word for word. “They just don’t get it! They don’t understand us or how it is now.” That was different waaaaaaaaay back then in the dinosaur age when they were young. Aren’t those the classic teen critiques? I am sure we all thought them as teens. Every generation does. MY teenage children do it to me now.

    #233243
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks everyone for the thoughts/ideas/opinions. I’m extremely grateful for a place where I feel like I can get honest feedback about what is, for me, a difficult situation.

    #233244
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The most effective YM/Scouting leader I have ever seen, as an adult, was in my last ward. The parents always pressured a little to have him removed from his “post.” He would threaten to castrate the boys with rusty implements. He was irreverent and loud-mouthed. He is a convert to the Church, and very rough around the edges. But … he loved those kids fiercely! They knew it, and we had the most YM activity in a long time. We had boys bringing their non-member friends. They had an insane number of real Eagle Scouts (not just pencil whipped). He showed up to at least two juvenile hearings that I know of, as their scoutmaster and church leader, to plead for mercy for a couple of the boys. I could go on and on. He was definitely not “by the book” though.

    He will be remembered in their lives though. Not like someone else who just showed up and said “well … here’s the program. Let’s get through it like they want, so we can all go home as soon as possible.”

    #233245
    Anonymous
    Guest

    If the Bishop called you, then you can answer any parent who is concerned with the statement, “Are you questioning the Bishop’s inspiration?! Heretic!!!” :P

    #233246
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hey Eu, back to your point about feeling irritated and cynical at church — I don’t know what gets to you specifically, but for me most of the sources of irritation revolve around some members taking things a little too literally, or to the extreme and out of context from my viewpoint. The way I deal with it is to constantly tell myself that different people have different opinions and that is okay. I realize some of them may be confusing the physical with the spiritual, and I have to be okay with knowing that theirs is a perspective that works for them. I have been “coaching” myself in this way for a couple years now at church, and currently I rarely hear anything that ruffles my feathers anymore.

    As far as teaching, I remember thinking something similar to what you said about not wanting to teach for a while – until you sort things out or until the church shows some greater understanding to personal interpretations. For me now it is a little different, I have had in depth conversations with my bishop – and I think he is probably hesitant to put me in a regular teaching calling. I spoke in sac mtg and I don’t think he’s worried about me, I think he just wants that much more out of regular teachers.

    That being said I don’t think I would have much of a problem teaching from the manuals. There may be small things here and there I may gloss over, but for the most part I take lesson material for its spiritual value – not caring so much if it is interpreted more literally by class members. It is almost like everything in church is one giant parable to me, the question of how to apply the principles to my life is my focus. The literalness of the “blessings” coming in physical form – or other non-mythical applications to my life simply are not a big concern anymore. I feel like the spirit is working in my life at this point the way it is supposed to according to my understanding right now. Things are good, I live and let live. I wouldn’t want to try to correct others anymore than I would want them to try to correct me. Sure I appreciate new light into a new perspective, but a direct correction – no thanks.

    It does take a lot of active thought process. Regarding your question of maintaining a level of transcendence, I would say you have to work hard for a while until it becomes second nature. A faith crisis is kind of like a spinal cord injury (spiritually speaking), when you learn to walk again it is not the same as an infant learning to walk for the first time – it is more complicated than that. It takes a lot of extra effort to get all the signals firing together, and extra effort to gain the level of coordination to walk, run, and play without specifically thinking about keeping your balance (spiritually speaking of course). ;)

    #233247
    Anonymous
    Guest

    What orson said.

    Seriously, that was excellent.

    #233248
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Old-Timer wrote:

    “Are you questioning the Bishop’s inspiration?! Heretic!!!” :P

    I heard a comedian say this recently in a routine:

    That person was very annoying. They were really irritating me, and they are wrong! But I stopped myself … and asked the question, WWJD? What would Jesus do with someone like that? And then I knew the answer. I lit the [jerk] on fire and sent him screaming to hell 😈

    #233249
    Anonymous
    Guest

    So much good advice here already. I agree that, esp in Michigan, parents don’t expect leaders of youth to just read the manual and turn off their brain. My seminary teacher in PA was a secret smoker who was having an affair, and we weren’t scarred for life over it – not even his own kids were. (Incidentally, he and wife #2, the affair wife, are now active in the church even though she was not LDS at the time). We loved him because he was a real person with us, he listened and cared about us, and we mostly ran the program. That’s what good youth leaders do. I’m sure you’ll be great!

    As to making it work, you really do have to develop those zen-like habits in which you feel the same whether you are eating an ice cream cone or being waterboarded.

    #233250
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Yeah, if you’re going to be waterboarded, you might as well have ice cream. It might not help in the Pit of Despair, but it works in Sunday School.

    #233251
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks again everyone. Orson, you said a lot of great things, things that I have parroted before but have apparently forgotten how to do. In this vein, it seems like it’s really a function of practice and developing a plan.

    As for the lessons being more or less literal, I think that may be some of the problem. For example, in one of the lessons in the YM manual about Satan it describes the goals as:

    Quote:

    The young men should understand the reality of Satan, but you should not talk too much about him or relate personal experiences with the power of evil. Avoid discussing the occult. If the young men bring up such subjects as Ouija boards, séances, spiritualism, or Satan worship, you should tell them that such things are tools of Satan and that we have been counseled to avoid them completely. Then direct the discussion back to the lesson.


    I have to be honest, for whatever faith/belief I have in God, I have much much less in a literal Satan (not sure why). In fact, when I read this statement I nearly laughed (sorry if that seems blasphemous). I just don’t buy into Ouija boards, seances, or Satan worship. For me it’s like watching “The Exorcism of Emily Rose.” A bit scary and entertaining as a movie, but not to be taken seriously. Maybe I’m wrong. In any case, not sure how to convey the “reality” of Satan when I myself am VERY skeptical. Now talking about temptation and/or evil I can do because those exist, but the point of the lesson is clearly to teach the reality of Satan. While I certainly believe I could tailor this lesson to my comfort level and make it good for the kids, the truth is, it would not be in the designed goal of the lesson. And that is what I think someone like my dad would be worried about. It’s the parents’ expectations that worry me, not the kids’. Perhaps I am making mountains out of molehills.

    In any case, I think I will accept the calling and do the best I can with it. Knowing the bishop knows what I know and has confidence in me gives me some sense of approval I guess.

    BTW, it’s strange to me that both Brian and Hawk have indicated that living in Michigan in part means that parents know their kids will be exposed to stuff. My experience so far, living outside of Ann Arbor (which is decidedly very liberal) in rural Michigan is that people are VERY conservative. Additionally, (I nearly wrote this story 3 separate times on this thread but then erased it) we recently had a scuffle with the local high school newspaper in which a few parents in my ward felt the material was inappropriate (pictures of students dancing “suggestively” at a local club) and started a blog against it, rallied at school board meetings, and continually update our Sunday School class as to the status of the ordeal. Now there’s all kinds of name-calling, newspaper editorials, and the story has even made its way to Detroit. The principal of the high school has been mentioned more than once in our SS class (the SS teacher is one of the parents involved). It’s ridiculous.

    Hawkgrrrl wrote:

    As to making it work, you really do have to develop those zen-like habits in which you feel the same whether you are eating an ice cream cone or being waterboarded.


    Holy crap, I have a long way to go. ;)

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