Home Page Forums General Discussion the priesthood

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #205243
    Anonymous
    Guest

    i just wrote a post in the introduction forum, and this is the Second big thing i’m struggling with right now. i have really bad feelings toward the priesthood right now, i don’t want any PH blessings, if i get a new calling at church i would be happy to accept, as long as they will agree not to lay hands on my head and set me apart. my DH was set apart in his new calling a couple months ago, and i went with him to be supportive, but i was in so much pain inside (he has no idea). its hard for me to nail down exactly why i’m even so angry at the PH. i think perhaps it has a lot to do with feeling bitter and resentful at womens (unnecessary) exclusion. i found out that women used to lay hands on one another and give blessings and women used to participate in blessings over other men along with their husbands. What i see as a right given to all Christ-like people from God has been slowly eroded and taken away from women, to the point that i feel sinful even contemplating giving a blessing.

    my DH and i have thought about possibly trying to get pregnant (would be our first) in the next year. this should be a very exciting thing for me! but i can’t be completely excited because i’m already panicking about what to do about the baby blessing. i want nothing to do with it, i don’t want any children of mine to participate. i’m sure DH will find that really hard to deal with, i’m pretty sure he’ll want to give a baby blessing (although i haven’t discussed it with him). has anyone else felt this same pain and confusion about blessings and the PH? how have you dealt with it?

    #233675
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think there are many things about the church or how it is run that can be issues we don’t agree with or we don’t prefer. This is definitely one for you. While I haven’t experienced this to know how to deal specifically with this issue, I have had my share of other issues.

    I find that there is learning and benefit by going through the exercise of deciding how you will deal with it so you can be at peace, despite whether you decide to stay in the church or you decide the pain is too great and you look elsewhere for spiritual guidance.

    I think the items that become problematic for us are often the symptoms of some deeper issue…and we need to get down to the root of the issue to really address it there, but there is growth and meaning found there (and also pain and effort sometimes), and that makes it worthwhile to work out these issues for ourselves.

    CS Lewis aptly wrote:

    Quote:

    If our religion is something objective, then we must never avert our eyes from those elements in it which seem puzzling or repellant; for it will be precisely the puzzling or the repellant which conceals what we do not yet know and need to know….the truth we need most is hidden precisely in the doctrines you least like and least understand. Scientists make progress because scientists instead of running away from such troublesome phenomena or hushing them up, are constantly seeking them out. In the same way, there will be progress in Christian knowledge only as long as we accept the challenge of the difficult or repellant doctrines. A ‘liberal’ Christianity which considers itself free to alter the Faith whenever the Faith looks perplexing or repellent MUST be completely stagnant. Progress is made only into a resisting material.

    #233676
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Fwiw, I love the concept of the baby blessing – as a figurative ordinance. If I were you (and I know I’m not, so take that for what it’s worth), I would have your husband bless your baby(ies) in church and then have a separate, private blessing at home that you can give – not quoting “through the authority of the Priesthood”, but using any other wording that makes sense to you and conveys the authority you feel – and which I also believe you have, especially if you have been through the temple and, ironically, wear the garment of the holy Priesthood.

    For example, you could say something like, “Through the responsibility / authority invested in me as your mother” – or, “As your mother and in token of the covenants I have made in the temple to bear, nurture, provide and care for you” – or something else that doesn’t invoke directly “Priesthood authority”. Women still can bless; there is NO official forbidding of that. It’s only official Priesthood ordinances outside the temple that are restricted currently.

    So, bless your children as you see fit; just don’t stomp on communal standards and sensitivities in the process. Be a mother in Zion; just be charitable in the way you do it.

    If you want to read a beautiful post about blessings, written by a quite liberal and well known woman in the Church, Margaret Young wrote a post at By Common Consent just over 3 years ago that is one of my all-time favorites. It’s entitled “To the Pastor” and can be found at: http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/05/03/to-the-pastor/ .

    #233677
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I really love that idea too, Ray! It gets to the heart of some feelings we’ve all encountered: resentment.

    Cake, I just posted on your intro too, but to expand a little here, I have felt the exact same feelings as you have now. There’s a bitterness and resentment towards those that we perceive could not or would not accept us as we are in this current place on our journey.

    The biggest trick of all is letting go of those perceptions. If we concern ourselves with how others may perceive us, we’ll always be left with resentment.

    #233678
    Anonymous
    Guest

    swimordie wrote:

    The biggest trick of all is letting go of those perceptions. If we concern ourselves with how others may perceive us, we’ll always be left with resentment.


    Well said, Swim. By the way, my daughter is reading Co-Dependency No More. She is benefiting from it.

    I like Ray’s post, and I like to think of it that way.

    But I start to wonder really about the doctrine of the priesthood. What is the difference between a Father holding a baby to give a name and priesthood blessing and a mother holding a child and giving a blessing?

    Is it all just traditions of our fathers in the church?

    #233679
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Well … I haven’t had the same exact problem personally because I grew up as a male in the church. I believe your observation is correct though, that you are unjustly denied priesthood as a woman, at least within an orthodox LDS perspective. Just because they say it, doesn’t mean it is correct. What if they are wrong?

    I would say that many men in the Church were ordained, but few have priesthood power or authority. That might even be something that gets me “burned at the stake” for saying it. I have also met women that have more priesthood in their little finger than many men have in their whole body, even if they had hands laid upon them by “authorized” servants with the “proper” keys ;)

    The anger part though … that is inside of us. I think you should really explore that anger, like it is an object in your hands. Why does the idea of men holding the priesthood and having some “power” over you make you angry? Why do you feel “sinful” at the thought of blessing someone you love? I don’t know the answer. I really don’t. I bet you have really good reasons though, and the liahona-like object of anger will tell you the answer.

    #233680
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think the priesthood is the sum of its parts.

    #233681
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    I think the priesthood is the sum of its parts.


    Please Mr. Yeti, expound on this further for me 💡

    #233682
    Anonymous
    Guest

    thanks for all the insights! i said this on my intro thread, but want to reiterate it here, i really appreciate how caring and uplifting everyone is on this site.

    i really like the idea of giving a mothers blessing. i’ve never really liked all the fanfare surrounding baby blessings in general, so maybe we’ll do something small at home for both my DH baby blessing, and mine. it will disappoint both my parents and his to not have all of our families at church, taking up 5 rows! but they’ll have to just get over it! what would be really great is if I could get my sisters or mother to participate with me, but i don’t think that will be possible. in fact, they might tell me afterward how wrong i am to do such a thing.

    #233683
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I blessed both of my sons outside of the traditional church setting primarily for logistical reasons. We blessed our oldest son at my parents’ house. We were poor college students living far from home, and we figured it’d be easier for us to travel to where most of our relatives live rather than the other way around and force them into our cramped apartment afterward. We blessed our other son in a chapel, but not during sacrament meeting. It was my in-laws’ 50th wedding anniversary and all of my wife’s relatives were in town from all over. In the first case, the atmosphere felt more celebratory and festive than the traditional blessing during sacrament meeting. We waited nearly a year to bless our second son due to all of his health problems and it was a far more solemn occasion, but several relatives commented afterward that it felt way more spiritual than other blessings they’d attended.

    Our daughter wound up being the only one blessed in sacrament meeting, and I thought it was the worst experience of the three. My wife almost didn’t make it because our second son was sick and we thought we might need to keep him home. Also, because we were essentially blessing our daughter in front of strangers rather than close family members, I felt really tense and anxious because I felt the need to “perform.” Whereas I was a lot more loose when it was just close family members attending.

    Your mileage may vary, but if I had to do it all over again, I’d bless all my kids at home. And I’d have my wife stand in the circle with us if she wanted to (‘m pretty sure she wouldn’t feel comfortable, however).

    #233684
    Anonymous
    Guest

    cakelady wrote:

    … i have really bad feelings toward the priesthood right now, i don’t want any PH blessings, if i get a new calling at church i would be happy to accept, as long as they will agree not to lay hands on my head and set me apart. …its hard for me to nail down exactly why i’m even so angry at the PH. i think perhaps it has a lot to do with feeling bitter and resentful at womens (unnecessary) exclusion.

    …i’m already panicking about what to do about the baby blessing. i want nothing to do with it, i don’t want any children of mine to participate…has anyone else felt this same pain and confusion about blessings and the PH? how have you dealt with it?

    Personally I don’t mind going along with these rituals just to keep up appearances but I do feel a little uncomfortable with the general idea of priesthood. To me, it is mostly related to the apostasy/restoration doctrines and the notion of the “one and only true church.” I know some members think it is a deep and esoteric doctrine but to me it looks more like a convenient way for the LDS Church to claim that all other Christians’ baptisms don’t really count and that their ministers don’t have any real authority from God.

    So even if exorcisms performed by Catholics or evangelicals work just as well as ours we are supposedly still better and special due to this formality that somehow magically works out in our favor (Matthew 7:21-23). In my opinion, these assertions look mostly like a shameless ego trip. What’s worse is that this doctrine has also been a pretext for deliberate exclusion from important leadership positions based on gender and race (until 1978). I guess there’s no point in letting it bother me too much because this is probably one of the absolute last things the Church will ever change significantly in my lifetime. However, just because they say it doesn’t mean I need to believe it.

    #233685
    Anonymous
    Guest

    cakelady wrote:

    i really like the idea of giving a mothers blessing. i’ve never really liked all the fanfare surrounding baby blessings in general, so maybe we’ll do something small at home for both my DH baby blessing, and mine. it will disappoint both my parents and his to not have all of our families at church, taking up 5 rows! but they’ll have to just get over it! what would be really great is if I could get my sisters or mother to participate with me, but i don’t think that will be possible. in fact, they might tell me afterward how wrong i am to do such a thing.

    I bet that would be a special, wonderful and memorable experience. Seriously. If you want to take into account some potential conflict with the church (not because they are right, just because they are what they are, and you might not want the conflict), then you can dodge a lot of stuff, like Ray said, by avoiding the use of similar authority language — like saying you are doing it by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood or something like that (massive run on sentence, lol). I am not saying you can’t do that, or that you shouldn’t, or that it will piss off God, or anything like that. You should follow “the Spirit” as we always say. That was just a practical suggestion that can dodge the legalism of the pharisees ;)

    Besides, I have in my mind that it would be double empowering to claim your own authority as the child’s mother. ;)

    #233686
    Anonymous
    Guest

    As a woman, I have used the name of Jesus Christ. Like…”in the name of JC I bless you…” It felt most comfortable to me at the time.

    Just one thing to keep in mind, if it matters to you, is that sometimes your kid won’t be “on record” if you have the blessing not at church. Make sure the bishop and clerk know so the record can be made. Shouldn’t be a big deal.

    #233687
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Every member who is baptized and takes the sacrament thereafter commits to “take His name upon (her)” – so it’s perfectly fine to bless someone in the name of Jesus Christ – or as a disciple of Jesus Christ – or anything else like that.

    #233688
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Interesting thread.

    If I may interject my crazy fundamentalist views…

    The priesthood is the power that created worlds…it is the power that enables us to bless others.

    Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey had the priesthood bestowed upon them….NO Church present.

    Abraham, Issac, Jacob, etc., etc….. all priesthood holders….NO Church.

    I find the priesthood hundreds of times more important, and more relevant, than the Church. As far as women go, when one recieves their second annointing (yep…it’s still necessary), this is when women really do receive the priesthood. Until then, women have the higher calling as mothers. After the second annointing, women have a tremendous responsibility….it’s only right….us slob men barely can handle the priesthood by itself.

    If the mainstream Church has somehow watered that importance down to being secondary to the Church…than they are incorrect.

    Fundamentalist ramblings….

    Dismiss at will.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.