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Hi Everyone, I could use a little advice here. My TBM family members and friends know our family is no longer active in the lds church. They have been pretty good about not pressuring us to come back to the fold. We have been appreciative of that as we have explained it is something we have to work out for ourselves. But, it has also placed a barrier and distance between us. On one hand we have friends and family members who are strong evangelicals who are trying to pull us their way and are thrilled we are investigating other churches. But our TBM family and friends now look at us as pathetic lost souls. Well, my sister is coming to stay with me for two weeks and made it real clear that she does not want to discuss religion or politics with me while here. She said that nothing can shake her testimony but she doesn’t want to hear any doubts my husband and I have about the church or the churches stand politically. I said that would be fine; that we just want her to relax and have a good vacation here. I told her I have been visiting the Nazarene church here and wondered if she would like to come with me. She said sure, that we all have Christ in common. But, then my brother calls me and said he had just talked to my sister and she was highly offended that I asked her to come to this church. I told my brother how our discussion had gone down and that she should have told me that she did not want to go there but to the lds church instead. My brother agreed but then asked what bothered me about the lds church. I started to tell him that the polygamy and polyandry issues with JS marrying other men’s wives behind the husbands and Emma’s back bothered me and that I thought he might be a fallen prophet. I told him that never is never a credit or mention of all the other wives, like they are not important. Well, I should have kept my mouth shut as it opened up a can of worms. My brother said he did not believe that at all and then he told me that he and my sister do not want me to send them any informtion which might be factual about that. To them, even if the church ends up being false, it’s the best thing they have in this life and it makes them happy so they don’t want me shaking their faith. I told them I respect that and will not interfere with that. I explained that my husband and I appreciated that they did not badger us about our doubts and questions and allowing us to work out our issues on our own. I told them that my main focus was to deepen my faith in the Savior and we could all agree on that. So, it all seems good. Our TBM lds friends are polite but keep their distance now as our doubts may rub off on them.
I guess I can understand where they are coming from but it is frustrating for us to be caught between two extremes in our families. We are somewhere in the middle and more moderate politically and religious wise now. How do you deal with not fitting in as well with the family anymore? I miss the closeness we all used to feel. Being able to question things was a normal thing with my dad and in our family growing up. Now, questioning seems like a sin.
I try to get better at talking about the weather, kids, job, and vacations. It’s a pleasant new skill. Most people love general non-denominational spirituality also, such as my email signature line: “To forgive is the highest, most beautiful form of love. In return, you will receive untold peace and happiness.” – Dr. Robert Muller Just refuse to talk about religion. There’s a whole lot else to discuss. 
Yeah, you gotta talk about other things, or become tolerant and detached enough to talk about current events in the LDS Church. I have this problem with my parents. They know about their children having doubts (me and the majority of my siblings), but they just can’t talk about it. I am fine with that … but there is almost nothing in my parents life that isn’t connected to the church. They have no friends outside the church. The only newspapers and magazines in their house are church publications. Every conversation with them on just about any topic wraps back to someone in their ward, or some issue in the church, or at least some type of Glen Beck-ish ultra-conservative politics — the world is out to get them (nothing wrong with conservative politics, don’t want to offend anyone here. I am jaded about politics). They are nice people though, and good parents. Like I said, I am pretty good about being chilled out. But there is this huge gulf of separation. I get them, but they really can’t connect with things that interest me. So we don’t really hang out so much anymore. It is sort of sad sometimes.
Like Tom and Ray said, talk about other things. Lay down some ground rules. If they are mature, they will understand. It’s just so everyone can enjoy each other’s company, like family should do.
Brian Johnston wrote:Yeah, you gotta talk about other things, or become tolerant and detached enough to talk about current events in the LDS Church. I have this problem with my parents. They know about their children having doubts (me and the majority of my siblings), but they just can’t talk about it. I am fine with that … but there is almost nothing in my parents life that isn’t connected to the church. They have no friends outside the church. The only newspapers and magazines in their house are church publications. Every conversation with them on just about any topic wraps back to someone in their ward, or some issue in the church, or at least some type of Glen Beck-ish ultra-conservative politics — the world is out to get them (nothing wrong with conservative politics, don’t want to offend anyone here. I am jaded about politics). They are nice people though, and good parents.
Like I said, I am pretty good about being chilled out. But there is this huge gulf of separation. I get them, but they really can’t connect with things that interest me. So we don’t really hang out so much anymore. It is sort of sad sometimes.
Like Tom and Ray said, talk about other things. Lay down some ground rules. If they are mature, they will understand. It’s just so everyone can enjoy each other’s company, like family should do.
Thanks Brian and all you replied. I relate to you Brian that my TBM friends do relate everything back to the church or politics so I think I will make a list of other positive things we can talk about. It gets pulled back into church or politics I will remind her that she really did not want to talk about that. But, I can tell that they look at me, husband, and kids as being lost from the celestial kingdom now.
bridget_night wrote:But, I can tell that they look at me, husband, and kids as being lost from the celestial kingdom now.
Yup. They do. *shrug* Nothing you can do about that. The knee-jerk reaction is to look back at them in the same way of pity because they don’t see things the way you do. But that really isn’t productive. It will not bring you closer together. It does not accomplish our goal. It is not the divine and enlightened way to deal with it. Take the high road. Be the compassionate and tolerant person we wish other people could be.
What we send out into the universe comes back to us in the long run. Project anger and frustration, receive anger and frustration. Project love and understanding, receive it back plus increase. Build the “Kingdom of God” on earth.
I thought this was an opening interesting post to read, as it describes the conundrum I’m facing with the TBM’s in my Ward, and my immediate family. And it’s similar to the situation I face with my born-again Christian/Evangelical mother and father. I think your experience above has shown you the boundaries and limits of your relationship with family members. You also validated for me the comment in the StayLDS article about staying in the Church — that we shouldn’t do things that hurt the faith of other people . Wise counsel. It protects you in case you want to return to activity some day (and you might, in spite of how you feel right now about the Church), and it also preserves good relationships with people who are important in your life.
Going forward, you might have to recognize that you have to steer clear of the religion topic when they are around. Even discussing religion in general is likely to be perceived wrongly given your family’s attitudes toward people who are no longer believers. Recognize that being close to the topic may be perceived AS THE TOPIC, and leave it alone.
Focus on those things that you have in common in other parts of your life.
Also, consider a change in attitude about attending LDS functions. Maybe you agree to go to a Ward activity with your family in their Ward because you want to support them in believing something that may not be true, but which is important to them, and points them toward living a clean life. Or, you go with your sister to a Ward activity in your own ward out of support for her and an effort to improve your relationship and help her have a good experience with you while visiting. Do it for the relationship and not because you necessarily believe the doctrine at this point. Find a noble reason for doing it that resonates with you.
Also, be willing to accept that there are elements of truth in Mormonism that you can celebrate and make part of your home through scriptures on the wall, etcetera, gospel art you think is beautiful, etcetera, which makes your family feel comfortable and know that you still have some appreciation for their religion.
I totally agree with what you said Silent Dawning. Thanks. [ Admin Note: I have deleted comments about an administrative decision regarding the use of “TBM” here at StayLDS – since I opened a thread for admins to discuss it. Thanks for the suggestion, Tom – and your input SD. Let’s stay focused in this thread on the post itself.] Update: Well my sister did come to stay with me for two weeks and we became very close. Her life is a shambles and she has been suicidle for years. She has had 4 back surgeries and 11 other surgeries, and is in constant pain. She is diabetic, and has lots of other health problems while trying to raise her 3 granddaughters 4, 6, and 11. Her husband’s two brothers are also living there. Her house is a constant mess, her daughter is on crystal meth and she and her boyfriends stole 3 of my sisters schooters that she gets around on to sell for drugs. My sister is extremely overweight and her marriage is bad. I felt impressed to call my brother last month and asked him to go in with me financially to fly her out here for a vacation as a birthday gift. He was all for it and thanked me for helping our sister. I stayed away from any political or religious discussion unless she brought it up. She actually did bring up some things she did not agree with the church on and we had very good dialogs. We also talked about our childhoods and what she was going through. I took her out to dinner often and to the ocean to just relax. What I did not realize, was that this vacation was more like a small reprieve from a concentration camp. The closer it got to her going home, the more depressed she became. It felt like I was sending her back to the concentration camp to do hard labor again. She started crying uncontrollably that everyone would be better off without her and then explained why. I called her medical doctor son and her husband but they both acted like there was little they could do as they had no money to put her in assisted living, or get counseling for her. Her husband did not want to put the grandkids in foster homes as they have been raising them for 3 years now. My sister had been sexually abused by my oldest brother (who is dead now) and she needed to vent to me all she had gone through. I was frustrated and furious with her family. I had my sister write down on paper what it was she needed in order to survive and function better. I told her if she did not get the help she needed that she should take her pension, SS, and disablity money and move out on her own into assisted living. She told me she would do that. By the time she left, I was so exhausted and drained as I had watched her overeat on candy and not take her insulin hoping she would die. I was sick for 3 days after that with a Lupus outbreak.
The only reason I give this background is to help you understand why, what happened after she got home (in regards to my family not being active in the church) has traumatized me so much. My brother and I talked after my sister left and all went well until he said, “Let me ask you something; What do you think about Joseph Smith and the Church.” My brother does this to me once in a while (this thing about I am the older brother with the preisthood and need to preach to you). It really ticks me off. I should have just changed the subject and told him I did not want to discuss religion with him. So, I own my part in this. Instead, I said that I did believe JS was a prophet and brought forth many good things, but because of the polygamy and other issues, I felt he was a fallen prophet. I just get tired of never being able to share what I am going through in regards to the church because they cannot handle hearing it. Well, what I said upset my brother and after we hung up, he went and told his stanch Mormon wife about it. She ended up writing me a letter telling me off and it hurt me deeply as she even used my dad, whom I adore, against me. My dad is deceased now and was a convert who I strongly respected. He raised us to not accept things blindly and to question. He told me that when he joined the church he had a testimony, but if he ever found out the church was false he would just leave it. Well, I am going to copy and paste my sister in laws letter here and would like your feed back as to how I should respond. This again flared up my Lupus and really upset me.
Quote by Heber J. Grant (Truman G. Madsen tape on the Presidents of the Church)“Intellectual reasons either for refusing to investigate or for leaving the Church are after the fact and the fact is behavior. One has to find rationale when his life is out of harmony with the truth. There is enough of the light that he is trying to suppress it and invents plausible reasons why he doesn’t have to obey but the truth is that we all know that our conscience does voice protest at our lives and our sins and also kisses us as it were when we honor the core of our hearts which is truth.”
September 10, 2010
Bridget
This week, during our recent temple break, I was at the cabin in Pine Valley and re-listened to some tapes on the Presidents of the Church. This above quote of Heber J. Grant stood out in my mind as I heard it because it put into words what I had basically already said to your brother when we were discussing what you had told him on the phone about your current status and the repdudiation of the Prophet Joseph Smith/Church.
I had told him that it seemed as if you were finally ‘giving in” because it was easier than to keep fighting and was seeking and had found a reason to be free of the Church which is the root cause (from your perception) of so much conflict in your life and your family (as well as the “gay” issues friends/associates ( i.e. blogs, websites, chat rooms, etc.)
This is your way to rationalize how you can no longer have the conflict in your life. You have found/accepted a plausible reason/s to finally sever the very thing that you perceive is the root of so much heartache/conflict in your life.
You have had an ongoing struggle with a husband who has his own battle and lack of testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the restoration of Jesus Christ’s Church (or even if God exists). A son and his wife and family who are ‘inactive’ and all that goes with that. A daughter who has gone from one extreme to another in her religious beliefs/behavior in another church. Another son who is gay and all that goes with confronting/defending/agonizing over, etc.
You are attempting to suppress the truth you know and find ‘plausible reasons’ why you no longer have to obey the truth.
One has to find rationale wher her life (and/or their family’s lives) is out of harmony with the truth.
In my opinion, you have found your rationale (your plausible reason/s).
You know me–I say it like I see it. I love you (as does your brother) very much (and ALWAYS will); however, it saddens us that you have taken this direction in your life. We remain the same and will forever love you and your family but I felt I had to try and say something to you. I decided to put it in writing (and not in an email which is so easily ‘deleted’ after reading and possibly forgotten or a phone conversation that may or may not be comprehended fully) but where you might re-read this and give it further consideration and re-evalution.
I can’t help but wonder –How does “Opa” (your dad) feel about your thinking/decision? I think his feelings would be somewhat like ours. One of love but great disappointment but a hope and desire that you will prayerfully re-examine the decisions you have made and WHY.
The truth you have known all your life is still true. The farther you move from it the vaguer it becomes in your mind but think back to when you have known certain things to be true and when you were blessed to be guided by the Holy Ghost. When you have known and testified that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God.
I know that the Prophet Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God. Jesus Christ’s original church was restored through Joseph Smith. I know that Satan wants to deceive and if he can convince anyone or place doubts about this he will, if given a chance. Your life and experiences have worn you down ( in my opinion) and you are willing to accept your new direction because it is easier (and you are tired of the fight).
I would like to remind you that you have NOT succumbed to Satan in the past. I pray you will not do so now. I say this lovingly to my ‘favorite sister-in-law and hope that this will not diminish in your mind in any way my love for you and I hope yours toward me. If I didn’t love you, I wouldn’t have attempted to put this in writing. I hope you read it in the spirit in which I have written it.
I know you are making a horrible mistake if you stay on your current path away from the true gospel of Jesus Christ. I know He is our Savior and that he restored His Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God. I bear witness of this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Love, …..
Wow. I have had similar conversations (the message was the same) with my siblings and in-laws. My suggestion, for what it’s worth…I would write back and thank her for her letter and concern —- and leave it at that. No reason to respond any other way, as they obviously don’t get it. It would just make the relationship worse.
I no longer discuss religion with my family. It’s taken me a couple of years to completely get weaned off the subject of the church, but, the less we talk about the church, the more some of the family bridges are starting to come back.
Good luck.
Oh, just had another thought. Perhaps you might include the StayLDS article “Why People Leave the Church” with your polite thank you for your concern letter? Just a thought. I have sent it to a few acquaintances, and they thanked me for it later.
CWald. thanks so much. I forgot about that utube video on why people leave the church. That is a great video!! I also would thank them sincerely for their love and concern, with something like, “I know you don’t understand what I’m going through, but I appreciate that you love me and are concerned about me. I love you, too. I have a lot of things to work through, and I hope you will keep me in your prayers.” Then drop it – and if they bring it up in the future, just respond with the same basic message: “Thank you. I love you. Please keep praying for me.”
cwald wrote:Oh, just had another thought.
Perhaps you might include the StayLDS article “Why People Leave the Church” with your polite thank you for your concern letter? Just a thought. I have sent it to a few acquaintances, and they thanked me for it later.
Cwald, can you point me to that article? All I find is How To Stay.
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