curt

I kind of thought you might want to try, and I wanted to stop the generally negative tone that was developing among the commenters – which I started, I know.

It’s cool – and I really like your response.

Got a reply.

Curt is really a history professor. He is also a former Mormon, raised in the Church and very disillusioned. He is not purposely being a troll, and expressed a lot of thanks and appreciate for the site, even if he only pops on occasionally to bring up a topic or respond.

He is dealing with the all-too-common sense of betrayal, so we were getting the right vibe. I also think he is blunt and very to the point (his personality), so the troll alarms were picking up the right emotional vibe, but he is sincerely not trying to be a troll.

None of his topics have turned out bad, so I say we just keep his background in mind and deal with him normally. I explained we might occasionally hold a topic temporarily, like editors at a magazine, until we have a handle on the potential problems. He sounds like he is cool with everything.

He really is a history professor. I looked him up on the staff listing at the university he works at.

Here is his reply explaining his back story:

Brian,

I appreciate this. I totally understand the concerns. I hope that the list managers will understand that I am sincere and not out just to create problems. I am coming from a very intimate level.

My family is deeply rooted in the history of the church. I just found out, although I had some indication of this before (long ago), that one of my great grandmothers (+ four or three, I am not sure yet) was sealed to Joseph in Navuoo, making her, I am guessing, one of his polygamous wives. I have a cousin who has this info and is supposed to send it to me. That aside, my ancestors made the trek to Utah and settled in Manti. I am the direct descendant of the polygamous marriage of one my great grandfathers. We were there at the beginning, so Mormonism is in my blood, which is why I can’t let it go (I suppose).

I actually “left” the church quite young, when I was 17 (I am now 45). I put “left” in quotation marks though because I left because at the time I was simply unwilling to live by its strictures. I figured it was something I would pick up later, although I wasn’t too concerned. I didn’t want to go on a mission either, so that certainly played a role. I never dreamed though that the Church might not be true. I understood some of the problems with it, from just the most basic level, that we Mormons were challenging the status quo and therefore that there were people who didn’t accept our argument, which takes a bit of faith to go on in its own right. But I figured at that point it was just a matter of faith. One believed or one didn’t, and, of course, I thought those who didn’t believe were probably just led astray or weak in their belief (including myself). In other words, I basically accepted that the church was true but that it couldn’t be proved one way or another, so it was just a matter of whether one wanted to believe in it or not.

Then, the internet hit. This was 1993 or so. And the opportunity arose to begin exploring things I never knew about church history. This coincided with my pursuit of a Ph.D. in history (then only in its infancy). And I went on a major investigation to find out the history. What I found blew me away. The main, initial, issue for me was the First Vision. I couldn’t believe that there were other versions of it, versions that didn’t conform with the official account. Again, I had assumed it was a matter of faith. Didn’t have any idea that one might be able to test Joseph’s claims historically. And as I studied more I became very disillusioned and upset. I couldn’t really understand why I was upset, given that I had chosen essentially not to be a member, but it deeply bothered me. I realized that the whole thing was a sham, or, at least, I felt that way. I have come to a better understanding of it now, largely through your website. But at that time I was very disillusioned.

I talked to my family about it. They were fairly clueless. My dad refused to even believe what I was saying, i.e., that there were in fact differing accounts of the FV, among other things. My brother was blown away but more philosophical about it. He eventually made his peace with the issue and remains very active. My dad, unfortunately, passed away in 2000. But I also realized then that it did no one any good to try and confront them with the problems with the church’s history. It made them happy. It worked for them. Why destroy that or attempt to? So I dropped discussing it with them.

So, I found your website and it provides an avenue to discuss things. That’s the reason I am here. I’ll try to keep my comments in the spirit of the site. I am truly here with the sincerest of intentions.

Thanks for listening. Sorry this turned out so long. Best, Curt

Yes, thanks Brian. Maybe I should major in history?