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So, the past two months I have done some things that I never thought I would do. As I posted earlier, I asked to be released from my calling, which has been a great relief. I also have missed four Sunday’s of church meetings in the past couple of months. Last week, the second counselor in the branch presidency asked me if I would give a talk on ‘Enduring to the End’. 
So, since then, they have asked me if I would be okay with home teachers, even though we have been here a year with no home teachers, and I’m fairly certain that no one else in the branch has them. The missionaries also came and sat by me today and asked if there was any service they could give me this week since they don’t have any on their schedule yet. I thought, “Wow! I am officially a ‘project’!” I know where they are all coming from, I’ve been in leadership positions where you try to reach out to those who are struggling, but now that I am on the receiving end, I can see how forced it comes across, which is a total turn off.
Anyway, it has been interesting lately. I can envision myself going to church, as I did miss it when I didn’t go, but, I don’t feel like I can go on my own terms yet, so I still feel tense when I attend. I am also wondering if anyone else can relate to the feelings I am having that I NEED to do things that I have been taught not to do, simply so I can ‘remake’ the choice of whether that is actually how I want to live? For instance, my parents are both converts, and there are a lot of alcoholics on my mother’s side, I had an uncle that I never knew that was killed walking home when he was 9 by a drunk driver, and my grandma (his mom) died of alcohol withdrawal complications. Anyhow, in my mind when I think about drinking, it seems extremely stupid no matter your age or who you are (conditioning?). I have never known anyone personally who has ALWAYS been able to control their drinking and has never had any bad experiences or done stupid things while drinking. However, I also feel this pull that I have to take at least one drink voluntarily in my life, just so I can say that I choose not to drink for other reasons than the church says not to.
When I think of it that way, I feel like I must be thinking/acting like a teenager, why can’t I just consider all the reasons I just gave about my family background enough to be able to say, “I don’t want to drink?” I kind of think that if I just took one swallow, it would be like ‘getting it out of the way’ of the things I have to do for closure. I don’t know if any of this makes sense…Any thoughts would be much appreciated as always!
My TBM husband (Maybe ? Not so sure anymore) hasn’t done anything stupid and he drinks sometimes. He had his first beer when we were at Disney World a little less than two years ago, he was 23. I almost passed out from all of the hype surrounding his first beer, and I’ve been drinking here and there since 15. If you do decide to try a drink don’t do it just to rebel. Everyone seems to have some type of alcoholic in their family – Although I’ve come to realize that ALL of the so-called “Alcoholics” in my husbands family aren’t alcoholics at all, they just drink alcohol.
😯 Some people can handle it well and some people can’t. Unfortunately there isn’t any way of knowing. When I was 21 I was completely irresponsible with alcohol. Now three years down the line .. I know my limits. Keep moderation in mind and you will probably be fine. BTW you might not like your first drink – But the flavors and brands are endless so throwing the baby out with the bathwater b/c you didn’t enjoy your first beer is not giving the art of it’s creation justice.When DH was first thinking of alcohol I told him to accept the fact that alcohol has “power”. It has the power to alter your mind and actions. You need to respect that power and have the will to be able to use alcohol in a way that will be undamaging to you or others. Once you start drinking it is your responsibility to prevent the alcohol from becoming poison. On one end it can be a really neat hobby/ social activity and on the other end it can bring pain.
Don’t do it. Period. You’d be doing it for TOTALLY the wrong reason – at least based on what you’ve shared in your post. Drinking and smoking are two of the things I am VERY wary of “recommending” to anyone – since I have no way of knowing how susceptible that person is to either substance. The Mormon angle really doesn’t play into that for me. Rather, it’s simply biological. Each can be highly addictive quickly for some people, so I just can’t recommend anyone partake just to “get it out of the way”.
I second the motion from Ray — don’t do it. There are so many practical benefits to NOT drinking, and it will only fuel the faith crisis in my view. I know you feel the need to express your choice and do the gospel for your own reasons, potentially, but I would rule out things like drinking. I made the personal decision not to drink when I was a non-member, so it has never been an issue for me personally — you can make that decision now…you don’t need to try something in order to liberate yourself from the suffocating grip of the Church some people perceive by experimenting with some of the things we choose to abstain from.
And, I honestly think you’ll feel better by simply not imbibing.
Roadlesstraveled wrote:…I am also wondering if anyone else can relate to the feelings I am having that I NEED to do things that I have been taught not to do, simply so I can ‘remake’ the choice of whether that is actually how I want to live? For instance, my parents are both converts, and there are a lot of alcoholics on my mother’s side, I had an uncle that I never knew that was killed walking home when he was 9 by a drunk driver, and my grandma (his mom) died of alcohol withdrawal complications. Anyhow, in my mind when I think about drinking, it seems extremely stupid no matter your age or who you are (conditioning?). I have never known anyone personally who has ALWAYS been able to control their drinking and has never had any bad experiences or done stupid things while drinking. However,
I also feel this pull that I have to take at least one drink voluntarily in my life, just so I can say that I choose not to drink for other reasons than the church says not to…When I think of it that way, I feel like I must be thinking/acting like a teenager, why can’t I just consider all the reasons I just gave about my family background enough to be able to say, “I don’t want to drink?” I kind of think that if I just took one swallow, it would be like ‘getting it out of the way’ of the things I have to do for closure. I don’t know if any of this makes sense…Any thoughts would be much appreciated as always! Why not? You’ll never know what you are missing unless you try it. Of course, that’s easy for me to say based on my own experience when I don’t really have any regrets about my own drinking binges. Some people aren’t so lucky and have a harder time knowing when to stop so it ends up having a very negative impact on their lives. However, I don’t think it’s fair to insist that it’s never a good idea for anyone to ever try it just because there are some people that have a real problem with alcohol abuse. Use some common sense; if you try it and start to see negative results then you might be better off avoiding it.
I would not drink alcohol for the reasons you indicated. I agree with Ray, you would be doing it for all the wrong reasons. To drink alcohol because the church tells you not to is equivalent to “cutting off your nose to spite your face.” I personally have no problems with alcohol, or those who choose to drink. Most folks are perfectly capable of handling it, but yes, there are those who will get addicted and become irresponsible. I guess if there is a good reason for drinking alcohol, tea or coffee, I don’t think it really anyone else’s business. I’m sure it doesn’t need to be stated here – there will always be consequences to every action. Please make sure you are willing to accept those consequences first.
IMO, valid reasons
a responsible personmight decide to drink a beer or a cup of tea or coffee; health benefits, help getting to sleep, relax after work, bring friends/spouses closer, loosen up so one can talk with friends/spouse, better sex life, to stay awake while driving, to respect friends/neighbors traditions, to enjoy the beauty and artof beerology and viticulture, and tea drinking (my personal favorites 🙂 ).I understand a lot of what you are saying. I have the kind of personality where I often have to touch the hot stove, just so I understand it better, even though everyone told me I would get burned. I wouldn’t be satisfied if I didn’t know what it was like to get burned. Not a great analogy. And I don’t apply that to everything in life, I actually do have a healthy self control … but I am a curious person.
Anyway … I agree with some of the others — you are not making the decision to drink for the right reason, in the right frame of mind, at the right time in your life. You can totally decide to do it anyway. It really isn’t a big deal. It isn’t going anywhere, and will still be there to try later when you aren’t in as much of a anxious or high-stress point in your life. But it doesn’t sound like the a good time now.
I’ve been on and off for periods over my life with the traditional WoW-compliance, if that helps to qualify my opinion.
rlt, I can identify with your desire to break the taboos of your previous life stage. I also wanted to. In the end, the only taboos I broke were to miss church for a month and to use some legal entheogenic seeds.
I have nothing against social drinking. I just don’t think in the end that drinking has to be the defining act of your taboo breaking. See this thread about taboo breaking.
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=237 I forgot about the thread Tom. Thanks for linking it. FWIW, taboo-breaking can be a spiritual “sacrament,” an act of mindful and conscious spiritual ritual. It’s a pretty advanced spiritual practice. I still think you aren’t in THAT frame of mind.
Taboo-breaking has to come from a very dispassionate desire to create tension in our soul, not from a rebellious anxiety — like just trying to “get it over with.”
Roadlesstraveled wrote:…just so I can say that I choose not to drink for other reasons than the church says not to.
It sounds to me like you already have reasons OTHER than “the church says not to.”
FWIW I feel like I have always chosen to not drink (and other things) for my own reasons, even though I have always been an active Mormon and the church says not to. At a young age I decided “the church says no” was not a good enough reason for me personally to not do something. I wanted to have my own reasons — and I did, I still do.
What I’m trying to say is it makes no sense to me that you have to ‘take a sip’ to claim the reasoning for yourself. I have never tasted alcohol, and I’m sure there are people all over the world that could say the same – that have their own reasons – and are not members of our church.
My thoughts…
Thanks everyone. As I’ve thought about this more and read your comments, I think that what I am feeling more is that I need to take a drink not because I want to break the taboo, but to show my husband that I am more accepting of his choices that he has made, which includes drinking. It has been a VERY sore spot in our marriage for a long time, since I was TBM for so long after he lost his faith, and now, after reading all the comments, I realize it would probably be detrimental to myself and our marriage for me to do it just to make him feel more comfortable. I honestly could care less about drinking for myself, I have never been one to care for any kind of ‘buzz’, even taking medication after surgery doesn’t sit well with me, I don’t like feeling out of control of my body at all. I guess I am just tired of the automatic ‘annoyance’ that creeps in as soon as I am around anyone who is drinking, and I was thinking that maybe if I just took a drink, that would end my self-righteous smugness and it wouldn’t annoy me so much. Roadlesstraveled wrote:Thanks everyone. As I’ve thought about this more and read your comments, I think that what I am feeling more is that I need to take a drink not because I want to break the taboo, but to show my husband that I am more accepting of his choices that he has made, which includes drinking. It has been a VERY sore spot in our marriage for a long time, since I was TBM for so long after he lost his faith, and now, after reading all the comments, I realize it would probably be detrimental to myself and our marriage for me to do it just to make him feel more comfortable. I honestly could care less about drinking for myself, I have never been one to care for any kind of ‘buzz’, even taking medication after surgery doesn’t sit well with me, I don’t like feeling out of control of my body at all. I guess I am just tired of the automatic ‘annoyance’ that creeps in as soon as I am around anyone who is drinking, and I was thinking that maybe if I just took a drink, that would end my self-righteous smugness and it wouldn’t annoy me so much.
Then I change my mind – I think it it is a valid reason. After all, we support folks going to church just to be supportive of their spouses. I can see this being similar type of thinking.
That adds more to the overall picture, but I still would suggest that you not do it. In the scenario you just presented, you are doing something you don’t want to do and don’t like to do and don’t believe in doing just to prove your love for and acceptance of your husband. I know this is going to be an extreme example that can be picked apart, but what if his issue was self-cutting – or illegal drugs – or hardcore child porn – or anything else that is opposed by the LDS Church, is terribly destructive for some people and had no intrinsic “value” to you? I still think the motivation you are articulating isn’t the right one to decide to drink. I think there is more value in it than the initial positioning, if push came to shove and I had to “rank” them, but I still think it’s kind of the lesser of two evils, so to speak.
What would be the proper motivation? If you personally decided there really is no value in a complete prohibition, at least for yourself and your family, and you actually WANT to drink – for yourself and not for anyone else – if you are willing to drink publicly, or, at least, not hide it from others, including your children – etc.
In the scenario you just presented, I think the real issue is your lack of acceptance that OTHERS can drink, especially around you – that there might not be anything “bad” or “evil” or “repulsive” about OTHERS drinking – that you aren’t able yet to avoid judging them for drinking. I would tackle THAT issue directly, not try to solve it by taking a drink. Iow, you can support your spouse in other ways that are more true to yourself than drinking.
There is a dark side to alcohol, which I experienced first hand. There is also, I think, a positive aspect to responsible social drinking. It’s all a matter of where you want to go. I want to keep a TR, therefore I don’t drink. I think I’d like my children to not drink. Therefore I don’t drink. My spouse would be pretty disappointed in me if I drank. Therefore I don’t drink. So I have lots of reasons to abstain, and only a couple of reasons to take up the practice again. For me, it’s clear what makes sense for me to do. You may add things up and come to a different conclusion. And that’s okay. I’m not saying you’re doing this necessarily, but looking at a ‘first drink’ as a rite of passage, something akin to losing one’s virginity, is probably counter-productive. The first drink is not the issue. The issue is the long-term kind of lifestyle you want to live. If modest alcohol consumption fits in, then fine. If it doesn’t, that’s also fine.
Do not get hung up on the church cultural model that alcohol is evil. It’s pretty clear that this wasn’t the church’s cultural position until Prohibition, and it’s probably safe to assume that many or most church members and leaders up to that time partook of ‘mild drinks’ (beer/ale) and wine on a regular basis.
If it’s a sip, I am leaning toward the “better do it and have it over with” side. The need to stay ritually clean by not having alcohol touch our lips (and I include myself in that) is not helpful to our happiness.
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