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Well, my church status took an “expected” turn today. It’s was only a matter of time, and I’m sure that the BP has gotten talked to by the SP and HC in recent weeks. The BP asked to speak to me and jwald after church today. He informed us that our temple recommends were expired and asked if we wanted to go through and interview so we could go on the temple trip this month. jwald let the BP know that would be okay with her. I told BP, “thanks for the concern, but I’m really not interested in getting a TR right now.” Well, of course the BP had to know why. His initial response was something about if I had unresolved sin I needed to get it cleared up.
🙄 I assured him that was not the case at all. I even told him that I probably could answer all the questions okay according to my own interpretation and conscience, but just really didn’t think it was the right time for me. I was very pleasant and “good” and did everything I could to be evasive, but after 10-15 minutes of interrogation of why I didn’t want a TR or wanted to attend the temple — it finally came out pretty well what I have been saying on here for a week now. I just finally had to tell the guy flat out that I didn’t believe in the church, or that it was the “one true church on the face of the earth” and I really didn’t believe in the magic power of the temple, and didn’t see why it was necessary – and that I haven’t been for at least 12 years even though I have had TR in that time.Even though he knows me pretty well, he was flabbergasted, and couldn’t understand why I would be saying something like this. He asked me a gazillion questions after all this about if I believed in JS, and the priesthood, and plan of salvation, the restoration etc etc. I was pretty evasive and let him do most of the talking. He made the comment that he couldn’t understand why if I felt the church was not true, why I keep attending and accept callings. Of course he spent a good 15-20 minutes baring testimony and trying to get me to share my concerns about the church and the temple and such – which I really did not do in any kind of detail. I didn’t go into any specific objections about dogma or politics or history or such. Just kind of a blank statement about not having faith in the church organization.
I honest to god felt bad for BP. I think he was truly confused, concerned and wanted to say
somethingto fix me. I think he was also a bit taken back that jwald was in there and was really not concerned and okay with it all. She even answered some of the questions for me when she saw that I was trying to just avoid letting any more of the cat out of the bag than was necessary. After about 40 minutes of this, I let him know that I appreciated his concern, and understood it was his job to ask the questions. I let him know that I had no intention of resigning, and that I didn’t considered myself an apostate or enemy of the church, that I wasn’t planning on asking to be released from my calling. I also assured him that I “wasn’t broken” and that our marriage/family were doing really good and that I was at peace and okay with my current pathway right now.
Things will certainly be different. I don’t know how they will play out.
Sounds like you handled it wonderfully, cwald. I know this might sound really corny, but I’m proud of you. You’ve come a long way, even if you still have a long journey ahead. Make sure you appreciate your good wife. That had to help, even if it did confuse the poor BP.
I’ll be interested in seeing how this plays out Cwald. Yes — I’m sure you really confused your BP. I had a similar meeting 10 years ago when I told a bishop that I had a testimony of the Church, had the money to pay tithing, but wasn’t going to do it. However, when he pressed, I stonewalled and then got out of there. I wasn’t ready to share anything so I made sure I didn’t. I too had to state there were no worthiness issues. Two years later, after two annual visits I finally opened up to the guy my reason — loss of commitment due to a pretty serious mishandling of an LDS Social Services adoption — you know the story behind that one. Told him I was prepared to accept the eternal consequences of my decisions. He and the whole leadership didn’t know what to do with me for a few years after that. They were completely off-base for many years.
He tried to help me but really — at our level of maturity and experience in the Church, I think we have to work through these things on our own schedule. Plus we’ve heard all the reasons and motivators before.
One thing that impresses me from your story is the fact that you didn’t take it as an opportunity to grandstand. I would have great temptation to do so in your shoes. But you took the high road and stuck to the basic idea driving your thinking. I see that as a great accomplishment given the intensity of your feelings about the Church. I think it’s also a credit to you as a gentleman.
It looks like you handled a very tough situation very well cwald. Did he say anything about your calling and if that would change etc? I really hope that your BP handles things as well on his end. Do something nice for yourself, you deserve it!!! CG
Thanks all canadiangirl wrote:It looks like you handled a very tough situation very well cwald. Did he say anything about your calling and if that would change etc? CG
Actually, no. After this interview we spent a few minutes going over some HT assignments that he wants me to take care. Of course, we have Branch Conference in a couple of weeks, and I’m quite sure the SP has been in contact with him about this issue. So if something is going to change, it will probably happen at Branch Conference.
When I was TBM I use to say the only reason someone leaves the church is because there was some commandment they could not live. I really believed it because I could not fathom apostasy for factual or evidence based reasons because the church was true so everything about it had to be true, so the only reason to leave would be sin. Of course I was wrong since most people leave not because of sin but because of apathy or other conflicts. So it is easy for me now to understand local leaders astonishment that anyone would have issues with the church and why their mind jumps to sin as a reason. There is just no understanding the church from our perspective until you have walked the path so to speak and done the study and contemplation to get a real perspective. So as we want patience given to us we to must have patience with those in the church who are trying to do their best to save us. Sure it can get annoying but all we can do is stand our ground and give them information if they are interested. Good for you, cwald! :clap: It sounds like it went pretty well.Was there any kind of relief finally having it in the open?
Butters wrote:Was there any kind of relief finally having it in the open?
Maybe, but not really. I have been unorthodox for years and was just pretty comfortable with it and still being off the radar so to speak, and pretty well the BP has just left me alone, even though I have gone years at a time without a TR and such. He’s probably the BP by default just like I have my callings by default, and really doesn’t want to deal with it any more than possible. I think he’s getting heat from the SP and HC. So even though it kind of feels good knowing that I don’t have to tiptoe quite so much around the BP and find excuses to not go on temples trips and such, I have a bit of concern how it will be handled in the next few weeks and how the SP is going to approach it with the BP.
I wish you luck with that then. It’s too bad that people think you have to fit the cookie cutter to be a “good” person. cwald wrote:Butters wrote:Was there any kind of relief finally having it in the open?
Maybe, but not really. I have been unorthodox for years and was just pretty comfortable with it and still being off the radar so to speak, and pretty well the BP has just left me alone, even though I have gone years at a time without a TR and such. He’s probably the BP by default just like I have my callings by default, and really doesn’t want to deal with it any more than possible. I think he’s getting heat from the SP and HC. So even though it kind of feels good knowing that I don’t have to tiptoe quite so much around the BP and find excuses to not go on temples trips and such, I have a bit of concern how it will be handled in the next few weeks and how the SP is going to approach it with the BP.
Cwald — how would you like to see this handled by the Stake Presidency and the Bishop? I’m curious.
SilentDawning wrote:Cwald — how would you like to see this handled by the Stake Presidency and the Bishop? I’m curious.
Status-quo.
Dang Cwald. I finally got a chance to read this thread. It sounds like you handled this whole thing like a true master! *Brian bows to the master* And no doubt that Jwald being in there, and being as cool as she is, that was probably just as important. I think it is soooooooo important not to start in on the details of the warty, stinky controversies with leaders (unless of course you actually want to talk to the Bishop about those things). That almost never goes well. Sticking to your preferences and your viewpoints is the best approach. It sounds like you tried your best to make it easy.
Hope it all turns out for the best. Keep us updated.
cwald You’ve given me a good blue print to work from, my day is approching.
:angel: f4h1
cwald… you and jwald are my heroes. I am trying to find a way to remain a part of the church on my own terms but I am really struggling with wanting to be there right now. Just when I thought I was doing better I went to church last week and while sitting there I had a full on panic attack and had to go home. Sundays have been known to cause me anxiety, but this was a first. I had an overwhelming “trapped” feeling… that I will never be able to become who I was meant to be, as if my religion was holding me back, but I have to keep pretending in order to not lose my relationships with loved ones. I have decided that I am going to take a little sabbatical from church and see if I can figure out a way to return on my own terms, with my own beliefs. I really thought I was almost there, and have been better able to “march to my own beat”. Last Sunday was quite a setback.
Thank you for sharing your recent experiences, it gives me hope that I can find a way.
Thanks Flower, Brian and F4H1 – and anyone else I missed earlier. It has differently been a bit different feel this week for me. I’ve always been unorthodox and on fringes at church so to speak. But certainly things are different now. I’ve skirted, found excused to avoid the BP, and just done enough to really keep from “outing” myself, but that is over now. In the church leadership discussions, I am now officialy a “heretic and an unbeliever.” I suppose the BP, SP and others involved will now have to face their own convictions and beliefs, and determine just how “tolerance” they feel the church can be. Like I said, I tried, I really tried to be as evasive as possible to protect the BP, as I have for years really. I’m sure he wishes now that he hadn’t interrogated me. I’ve had the same BP for about 10 years now – he doesn’t go out looking for trouble.
I don’t know. I jsut kind of felt that my time was up and I would have to “pay the piper” soon. Three months ago I was boiling mad and looking for a fight. Lately however, I finally started to feel recovered from GC and was actually feeling good about my decision to stick around. Hopefully I don’t get thrown under the bus now. It’s all good. I don’t know, maybe getting thrown under the bus will be a blessing – take the pressure off and give me more time with family, and give me plenty of excuses to take a sabbatical when I need.
Well, I guess I will just wait and see. It’s all good.
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